Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

Caligula do you think Karen White is a woman?

Do you think it's possible to change sex?

yes, because he's a man. And by calling these men women, on their say-so, you are doing exactly what you claim not to want to, throwing one group (women) to the wolves because of your care for another (men).

I do think that this case will bring a lot of people to this realisation. I wonder what it will take for those who still can't see it? A Girl Guide being raped? A Brownie? Well, it won't be my Brownie, not for all the 'care' in the world.

At least you think trans women who have fully transitioned should be in with all the other women GGirl, that's something. I'm not sure how many of these other posters agree with you though. What do you think about that?

Sorry violent rapists are people, but I don’t give a shit about them.

Totally understand that. Not all trans women are violent rapists. Not even all trans women who still have their penises. I assume you care about them though? Or am I giving you too much credit?

Thank you Ricky Gervais

What RiverTam said.

There should be no males in womens prisons ever. No ifs ands or buts.

Vulnerability is not what qualifies you for inclusion in the female estate (there are plenty of other vulnerable male prisoners who are not trans and don't get sent there, I'm unsure why trans ones deserve special treatment in that regard).

Once again females being told to make room for the males that don't fit.

No.

I think this is easy. Male sex organs = male prison. Female sex organs = female prison. Males who are transitioning should be segregated in a male prison until fully transitioned and then transferred to a female prison. Females who are transitioning should be segregated in a female prison until fully transitioned and then transferred to a male prison. Can't see why this simple solution wasn't applied...

Getting this back to GC comedians, Bill Maher is edging this way, I believe.

Despite previously being supportive of US ‘bathroom bills’ in the past, in his most recent stand up he talks about needing a whole new name for actual women, now that woman seems to include men.

He suggests ‘women classic’ 🤓

Sorry violent rapists are people, but I don’t give a shit about them.

Given they are usually in for far more minor crimes than men (not paying tv license for example ) and that their crimes are very frequently in order yo support a family member, do you feel that their incarceration should be made far worse by being locked in with men?

But a trans woman who doesn't pay her tv licence should be locked in with the men?

Surely some vulnerable women in prison will find ANYONE with a penis to be threatening to them - many will have suffered sexual assault. The prison service need to safeguard them by keeping ALL penises away from them, however they identify. The very fact of them being there, whether they intend to harm women or not, is in itself dangerous to the mental health of the women. Men should be kept separately to wome.

I fucking love Ricky Gervais. He's been on our side since the beginning.

And is genuinely very funny, and he's my weird crush. But also because of that ^

I give a shit about women River. I give a shit about natal women AND trans women. I actually give a shit about people, not just the ones that are "just like me". How awful. And I won't let my caring about one group mean I throw another to the wolves. I won't ever become a transphobe in the name of feminism. Not going to happen.

You CAN be a woman in law, and loads of psychologists seem to agree that some people need to live as one sex when their body dictates they should live as the other. What that means for them is that they will BE that other sex, for almost all practical purposes. As someone who is tolerant of others I respect that, and I respect it is a genuine need. There will be monsters who abuse society's trust, and they need to be prevented from doing that as best as we can, but not at the expense of those with a genuine need.

Sorry I agree with RiverTam. I cannot accept the rights of minority to trump the rights of women or create a loophole for non genuine trans women / men to exploit.

'yes, all transwomen are men. All of them. No exceptions. No amount of medication, surgery or presentation makes a man a woman.'

Completely with you RiverTam

Given that one in five women in the general population have been sexually assaulted and we know it is far higher in the prision population do you understand that for a large number of women being locked in with men (or those they perceive to be men if you prefer) would be highly traumatic?

Given they are usually in for far more minor crimes than men (not paying tv license for example ) and that their crimes are very frequently in order yo support a family member, do you feel that their incarceration should be made far worse by being locked in with men?

Do you understand that many women can't be in close contact with male non family members because of religious reasons and that to incarcerate them together prevents them from the right of practising their religion?

Do you understand that even without all that human rights laws state that males and females should be incarcerated separately?

no, what's not fair on those men is that anyone has given them the impression that they can ever be women. So let's start out from the beginning. No, you can't ever be a woman, in reality or in law. You can dress how you like, enjoy whatever hobbies you like, call yourself what you like, surgically or chemically castrate yourself if you like. You'll never be a woman so you need to understand that should you ever commit a crime then you'll be housed with men.

no confusion, no room for error, and no chance of a woman being sexually assualted by a man who is where he shouldn't be.

That's all if you really give a shit about women and girls.

VickyEadie Fri 12-Oct-18 12:35:21
Some idiots on there going for the 'clearly not a true trans person' line.
OK - tell us how we identify which ones are not 'true trans' in advance, please.
People with gender dysphoria are truly troubled and deserving of help and respect. The only people who are able to properly diagnose dysphoria are gender specialist doctors and psychologists, like the ones who do assessments of people requesting genital reassignment surgery or GRC.
We don't need to worry about recognising the 'true trans' because the professionals can do that. Further the dysphorics (my own child included) get counselling and therapy to enable them to make the best choice for them about how to proceed.

It's not as if they'll start handing out GRC without the expert input to that any predator or fetishist who claims they need one......oh, oh goodness, erm, 19th October people. Just saying.

For all legal purposes, if there is any doubt or controversy, your biological sex will be determined by a (clothed) visible inspection of your physical attributes or, at your request, by an unclothed visible inspection. If there is still any ambiguity, it will be determined by a DNA test to verify whether you have XX or XY sex chromosomes.

And that's not even a little bit of a violation when you're going to prison for driving without due care and attention.

Sorry RiverTam I disagree with you. Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

I think it is completely the duty of the prison service to identify dangerous inmates and to keep other prisoners safe from them. That's their job. It might be easier to put all the trans women in with the men and say hey, not our problem, but that's not fair on those trans women. What is fair is for the prison service to do their job properly and keep prisoners safe whilst they're in custody. That's a basic level of what we should expect from them.

This would all be easily solved if we just accepted that gender - and any presumed associated attributes/clothing or lifestyle choices etc - might be a personal choice that you make for yourself and maybe ask your friends and family to respect (like if you prefer to go by a name other than that on your birth certificate), but as far as the law is concerned, only biological sex has any standing.

For all legal purposes, if there is any doubt or controversy, your biological sex will be determined by a (clothed) visible inspection of your physical attributes or, at your request, by an unclothed visible inspection. If there is still any ambiguity, it will be determined by a DNA test to verify whether you have XX or XY sex chromosomes.

yes, all transwomen are men. All of them. No exceptions. No amount of medication, surgery or presentation makes a man a woman.

and neither you nor MNHQ can compell me to say otherwise.

13M followers. 13 million.

SPOFS
He had a rant about Caitlyn Jenner is his last stand up show, I think?

Sean Locke has been quite outspoken in some of his stand-up shows as well, but like RG he's a bloke so he gets a pass.

And KW didn't even have a GRC.
That's how shit the system is for vulnerable women, their need for safety and privacy counts for nothing.