Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

Women have a right to boundaries - to say no.
People who argue that women should not have these rights and must share prison cells with those with penises apart from being morally bankrupt, are a danger to women.

So is Karen White a woman then Caligula? Whose victims remain traumatized and I believe in at least one case internally injured? Should they be gaslighted in this way? Should the violence against them be recorded as committed by a woman?

Karen White is a man

He would still be a man even if he hadn't committed rape yet ... or hadn't been convicted yet

Anybody who supports locking up men with women who have no means of escape must really hate women, or be a fan of rape.

You mean trans women? Locking up natal women with trans women? You know a lot of them are just as physically incapable of rape as natal women don't you? Or do you just like to paint every trans woman as a rapist waiting to happen?

Yes, that’s the point I was trying to make about pregnancy. There are other reasons not to house criminals with penises in the women’s estate, beyond safety.

A link to the consultation on that thread might get some others to complete it?

As I keep saying...

Aye, on a thread about a rapist, that rapist is the only person who’s rights you’re consistently defending!

I wonder if Karen White will go on the statistics as a "woman who raped" ?

In court he was referred to as "She"
< MNHQ: I always normally use preferred pronouns, but not for rapists >

If in a few years there seems to be a sharp increase in violent crime by women, we should look carefully at the "women"

Sorry, there are too many people talking to me for me to respond really.

The bottom line for me is Karen White is a dangerous criminal, and like all dangerous criminals should be kept away from vulnerable inmates.

That trans women are women, that their lives are just as valuable as every woman's - and every man's for that matter - and that someone's discomfort at how a trans woman looks is not a good enough reason to say they are a man and send them to a men's prison. What is a good enough reason is their behaviour, like RAPE, which absolutely means they shouldn't live alongside women, whether you think they're actually a woman or not.

Anybody who supports locking up men with women who have no means of escape must really hate women, or be a fan of rape. Have a word with yourself, so desperate to appear progressive that you are defending such a gross breach of human rights.

CaligulaBlushed

KW is transitioning and has stated that they will apply for a GRC. Where should KW serve their prison sentence and why?

As I keep saying...

Even if I go on a business trip, with colleagues whom I've know for years,
there is no way I would share a hotel room with any of them

because I don't really know what they are like in their private lives, away from an office environment with lots of people around
and I'd be embarassed.

I wouldn't share a hotel room with my male cousin, whom I've know for 62 years and who I trust absolutely

• that's about comfort, not safety

@CaligulaBlushed KW is transitioning and has stated that they will apply for a GRC. Where should KW serve their prison sentence and why?

ALittleBit

Best keep the poor vulnerable transwomen away from the violent women then, hey?

Nasty women, so mean to people of the sex class that perpetrates 98% of sexual assaults...

95% of violent crime is committed by men. By all means claim that women are equally violent, it won't make it true.

I saw the 'women rape too' line earlier elsewhere. Clutching at fucking straws to justify putting vulnerable women at risk and denying them privacy from men.

I forgot, the "female brain" means that women aren't capable of violence. We're only able to do the laundry and the cooking. And to forget to pay our TV licences.

You have no idea what you are taking about. Women commit fat less crime than men. Fat less violent crime. That's a fact. Much of the reason is sociological rather than just a case of female vs male brain.

As I stated before a Netherlands study show trans some commit crime at the same rate as men. Therefore, if we accept there are male and female brains (I don't), trans women have male brains.

Can you explain how it's NOT transphobic to recoil in disgust at the idea of sharing a space with a totally non-violent trans woman?

It's not because they're trans, it's because they're male.

It's not 'phobic', it's a normal reaction to sharing with a strange male.

It's not 'disgust', it's a mixture of wariness, embarrassment, fear and anger at being expected to share with someone male.

If anything, aren't you being 'cisphobic' if you maintain that trans males are automatically safer to be around than other males?

The worlds gone fucking mad.

Penis - men's prison
Vagina - women's prison

Caligula it's not about 'recoiling in disgust' as you put it (and no-one else, only you) - it's about women feeling unsafe having to share space with men. Other women don't share that person's interpretation of how their womanly identity, they see a man.
And feel frightened, embarrassed, unsafe, triggered if you will.
So, to respect the safety, rights and feelings of women in a women's prison, we should not be putting men in there with them.

95% of violent crime is committed by men. By all means claim that women are equally violent, it won't make it true.

A question for Caligula, and anyone else who thinks transwomen with penises should go in women's prisons if they don’t have a history of violent crime against women:

isn’t there a second problem here, which is that EVEN IF you don’t think this person is a risk to the women who will have to share accommodation with the transwoman, women shouldn’t share cells with those who could get them pregnant?

I mean, even if the sex is consensual (or as consensual as is possible in a prison setting)? Are you saying it’s ok for women to be getting pregnant in prison?

I'll bold it for you shall I Cal? Since there are so many posts?

*How do you, Caligula, define a "real" transwoman?

That's a question to you, Caligula.*

caligula males and females are separated partly because it is understood that males pose a risk to females. So even 'non violent' men don't share certain spaces with women.

At what point in transition does a transwoman come out of the risk group of males and therefore no longer pose a risk to women?

Even without a penis, transwomen have the physical strength, muscular development, bones, skeleton, lung capacity etc of a man
We've seen that often enough in sport

They commit crimes at the same rate as other men

If a man had lost his penis in an accident or through illness, then he would be just as strong physically and able to beat up or strangle a woman

Losing a penis, by accident or design, does not remove the ability to commit crimes, other than rape.
It doesn't even prevent other sexual offences.

And very few transwomen prisoners - I don't know if there are any - have full surgery and GRC