Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

Choice seems pretty simple to me now.

Build another home for transwomen (which most of us would support, and they can then decide their own policies for admittance), OR leave women's doors wide open for all the wolves to freely devour them.

Twisty twisty twisty twist....

Oh for goodness sake, can we stick to grown up conversation please?

By your own arguments, someone with a penis, not convicted of rape, identifying as a woman has a right to be in a women’s prison

Some trans women have penises. And?

that person was Karen White at the time of their last conviction!!

sheesh

i am quite clear that transwomen are men and I don't want a man administering my smear test, taking my space on an all women's shortlist or competing against me in a rugby match

It's the majority view.

Ror the true humanitarian it really is Sophie's choice you're asking people to make...
Well, not really, seeing as women are human beings. It's not difficult to uphold women's rights to safety, privacy and dignity in women's spaces. What's so difficult about that?

CaligulaBlushed I’m going now because you’re actually really upsetting me.

But I’ll tell you, history will judge. There was a time when the Nazis thought they were right, and those fighting against them were the enemy.

Not how it’s viewed now eh?

Good luck with that.

Some trans women have penises. And?
And, they don't belong in women's single sex spaces. As they are not women. As if you didn't know.

You self ID as idiot. So it must be true.

A third space is not 'throwing transwomen to the wolves', that's sheer hyperbole.

A third space provides dignity, privacy, safety for all. All it doesn't provide is validation that TWAW and access to women and girls when they're in a state of undress or vulnerability.

Some trans women have penises. And?

THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL HIGH PROFILE RECENT CASES WHERE THOSE PENIS POSSESSORS HAVE USED THEIR PENIS TO ASSAULT WOMEN.

It’s ok for women to be raped, abused, attacked and intimidated.

Twisty twisty twisty twist....

I love being called an idiot.

For the true humanitarian it really is Sophie's choice you're asking people to make, and a lot of people are calling on feminism to make sure women choose to throw the trans woman to the wolves.

And folk like you are wittering on endlessly to make sure it’s women being thrown to the wolves. Because that’s ok right? It’s ok for women to be raped, abused, attacked and intimidated.

Because like it or not, that’s what you’re saying. And it’s fucking sickening.

By your own arguments, someone with a penis, not convicted of rape, identifying as a woman has a right to be in a women’s prison

Some trans women have penises. And?

a full GRC when whatever authorities have been satisfied it's suitable both for you and your community.

And where are the women in this?

You're talking about a man, negotiating with what will be mostly other men, to agree when it's suitable for that man to have unfettered access to women. You don't see the women as having any right to say no, you see their consent as irrelevant, you see it as absolutely right that they should be compelled to 'include' male bodied people whatever the effect on them, and to object is 'transphobic'.

This is precisely why no male born person, no matter what their stage of transition, should be in women's spaces.

Also, why aren’t trans people demanding safe spaces? Prisons, toilets, changing rooms etc.

Instead of taking women’s? Not men’s, it’s never men having to compromise/sacrifice/be trodden on.

Because it’s easy.

What criteria or checks are they going to use?

It's complicated isn't it. But the alternative is to ask people who they would rather have suffer the consequences. It isn't about men and women. For the true humanitarian it really is Sophie's choice you're asking people to make, and a lot of people are calling on feminism to make sure women choose to throw the trans woman to the wolves.

I think the point is Cal, if there are transwomen who you see as women, then that is absolutely fine

it doesn't mean you get to give away the rights of other women to privacy, dignity and safety though

i am quite clear that transwomen are men and I don't want a man administering my smear test, taking my space on an all women's shortlist or competing against me in a rugby match

It’s called death by a thousand cuts BingleBong

Caligula a GRC doesn't suddenly mean a woman won't feel unsafe or uncomfortable by having to share intimate spaces with that person though. What is wrong with a third space? Why does it have to be women's spaces- I can think of no reason other than validation.

Woke not some

I think it is

It isn’t. At all.

Karen White doesn't have a GRC and so the prison service are sooooo responsible for their decision to put him in the women's prison. Self-ID would be fine if those checks were reliable, even for people who DID have a GRC, but they're not. So I think there needs to be some sort of review process to get a full GRC

Again, absolutely not what you’ve been saying all along. By your own arguments, someone with a penis, not convicted of rape, identifying as a woman has a right to be in a women’s prison.

You just described Karen White before this latest conviction.

So, in fact, neither I nor anyone else on this thread needed to paint you as a “some idiot”. It didn’t need doing.

Karen White could have a GRC and still have a penis and would still and always be a man, so even with a GRC shouldn't be in a women's prison.

And how do you propose policing this?

NO.

Deal with the body dysmorphia in those that actually have it, as the mental health condition it is (like anorexia).

single sex spaces are not extreme

good lord

Sorry twisted just seen you posted a link. Thanks for that!