Karen White case on Jeremy Vine at 1pm today

I hated hearing about him ogling the women in prison showers. How can anyone hear that and think it's ok.

Just an idea, BBC, but why not let people refer to White as a man, and if anyone complains just tell them to go take a flying fuck at themselves?

It was hypocritical as two weeks earlier he'd Tweeted that " I'm in a communal changing room and the guy next to me was just brushing his teeth in the SHOWER.

"I can't overstate how much I am not OK with this."

It would be perfectly fine if he brushed his teeth with his cock though, even if it was right next to Wilson’s daughter.

He didn't have to call her Karen the whole time, unlikely he would have talked about the murders of Holly Wells and Jessicca Chapman by referring to Huntley just as Ian etc

I really don’t think you can blame Jeremy for sticking to the she pronoun. Hmhes in the BBC, look what happened to Jenni Murray. He’d be sacked if he repeatedly said he.

I'm really struggling to understand how people who actually work in prisons think this way.

Its worth listening to Anne Ruzylo's speech from the Manchester 'Standing for Women' meeting.

Anne Ruzylo worked in prisons and gives background as well as sharing insight from those currently working with the policies.

speech at 28:00

I don’t agree about calling convicted rapist Stephen Wood “she”. To me it confuses the issue. He is and has at all relevant times been a legal man and the courtesy of using his alias should surely be withdrawn as all sides accept it was only adopted in order to make his sexual assaults easier.

To me it’s like referring to “Sir Jimmy”. It might shock you but I promise my teenagers would simply think that was the proper name for him.

Most people who work in prision disagree with this policy. I've seen several warnings from governors etc who recognise the risks it brings. And the nature of predators to take advantage of any loopholes they can find.

Unfortunately they don't make the policies - they're just the ones clearing up the mess.

I'm glad Ricky wrote that. I've found there are loads of celebrities (especially male comedians) who gleefully poke fun at people who believe in God, citing that their belief is based on not much but faith, and yet are very very quiet when it comes to this faith based issue.

I think calling White 'she' is the only way of highlighting that this is the world we live in now. Karen is a woman because Karen says so. No matter what.

I am coming round to thinking like this.

The more you say things like 'she raped someone with her penis' the more the general public is going to go 'what the actual fuck.....'

There is very little that will peak people faster.

And many thanks to Karen White for looking like a particularly feminine, girly girl because of course her appearance helps our cause massively too.

from what the relative of the other prisoner said, It sounded like KW had stipulations applied to their move to a women's prison. They were apparently supposed to wear a wig- presumably to make them appear feminine- and didn't.

Now, aside from the fact that wearing a wig doesn't make someone a woman, here is evidence that KW didn't appear to identify as her feminine self all of the time.

So why oh why didn't the Governor remove them from the female prison?

I'm really struggling to understand how people who actually work in prisons think this way.

Ordinary, naive people maybe, but prison workers?

The Guardian says (www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison)

The new 60-page policy introduced in January 2017 emphasised the right of prisoners to “self-identify” and to be treated “according to the gender in which they identify”. Previously, prisoners requiring such treatment would have needed a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) or to have had a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

At the moment, prison policy is that if you have a GRC you get automatic transfer. If you don't, you're assessed on a case-by-case basis.

For top security prisononers with a GRC, they still get treated as female, but there is no top security facility in the female estate.

This is just prison policy. They don't have to do any of it. Exemptions are written into equality law that means they can keep all these sex offenders out of women's prisons.

Should they ever deem the rape or sexual assault of incarcerated women something that should not be confined to mediaeval torture history.

Thanks.

Did I hear right .... justice chap (I'm sorry I didn't get his name) says currently a MTF prisoner who self IDs as a woman could only be placed in a women's prison if they have a GRC?

This was the case, I believe it is not now. They are assessed (!) on a case by case basis. If they have a GRC they automatically go into the prision of their new gender. Without one they can request being moved and may or may not be told yes.

Ricky Gervais now.

I think the "broadcasters must use say transwomen are women" line was a veiled way to tell us all that actually, he doesn't believe what he is saying. That's a very difficult position to put any journalist in. Being unable to report a story as they think it should be told - using the truth.

Did I hear right .... justice chap (I'm sorry I didn't get his name) says currently a MTF prisoner who self IDs as a woman could only be placed in a women's prison if they have a GRC?

I'm not able to listen but this point is true.

Can that be so? Surely if White does have a GRC, the press would not be able to disclose that fact? That is, they would not be able to report him as "transgender"?

I have always assumed that none of the trans prisoners in womens' jails that we actually hear about (hear named) have a GRC, for that reason.

'She exposed himself' WTF ha ha ha. And Paula ty. Voice of reason.

She exposed himself

Did he really say that???

That is fucking hilarious. Honest to Godddddd.

Also, doesn’t that recent case where the Christian bakers were told they couldn’t be forced to say something that went against their beliefs, apply here? We shouldn’t have to say men with penises are women when we ( or anyone ) don’t believe it?

Sorry Destinys

Speaking I think it was about 1-1.40

It started at 1.