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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Definition of woman banned from buses in Edinburgh

58 replies

PimmsnLemonade · 11/10/2018 00:38

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/feminist-poster-banned-because-it-could-offend-trans-people-s2fkwc5sb

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SueCorstorphine · 11/10/2018 21:58

This is madness, it’s great lots of people agree here. In the man front my partner thinks if urinals are all removed people may wake up and realise that the changes inflicted on our girls are unacceptable.

Plainspeak · 11/10/2018 15:22

re the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018; Since no male can do anything towards the "purpose of becoming female" other than have all his genes replaced, the whole thing is still total bollocks.

To make it work they would have to redefine the word female as well.

How any court could think of upholding something so inadequately defined and reasoned I have no idea. It is a total embarrassment.

The bus thing is a disgrace. I am raging

MoltenLasagne · 11/10/2018 15:11

Hannah Pearson, of the Equality Network, backed the decision to ban the signs from buses and argued it was the “vehement anti-trans” campaign behind them, rather then the definition of women itself, which caused offence.

The recent decision with the bakery and their right to be compelled to say something they disagree with seems relevant here. In that case, the bakery won because they were happy to sell a cake to a gay couple, but didn't want to be compelled to write a message they disagreed with on it. i.e. they were willing to provide the same service to customers, but not to be compelled to say something they didn't believe.

What the advertising company seems to be saying is the reverse of this - that they are perfectly happy with the wording, but that they don't want to be providing a service to a particular group. Does any legal-type person know whether this would therefore constitute discrimination?

FekkoTheLawyer · 11/10/2018 15:01

maybe they should Hmm

rosablue · 11/10/2018 14:59

Wonder what would happen if they tried to run a similar poster but with the definition on there for man rather than woman...

AlvinStardustsGloves · 11/10/2018 14:16
  • Section 2, under Key Definitions.
AlvinStardustsGloves · 11/10/2018 14:15

The Scottish government has already created a law which has completely redefined the words 'woman' and 'female'.

In the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018, you can read that "woman” includes a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010) if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female.

(It's in Section under 'Key Definitions')

www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2018/4/section/1/enacted

So there need not be any change at all, or any legal commitment. Simply "proposing to undergo" etc etc is good enough for a male-bodied person to be classed as a woman, and no definition is given of how anyone will know when that person has "become female".

FPFW has an easy-read account of this :
fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/

breastfeedingclownfish · 11/10/2018 12:34

That ForWomen tweet summed it up:

'Porno' on Edinburgh buses is fine.

"Woman - Adult Human Female"? No, that's bigotry

twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1050301991891738624

LangCleg · 11/10/2018 12:23

Apart from the fact it was funded, is there any update on that?

Getting the questions properly worded then sent to YouGov this week, as I understand it. Unsure how long it takes YouGov from commission to publication, however.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 11/10/2018 12:07

Ah, yes, those terrifying stickers:

mobile.twitter.com/MagdalenBerns/status/1050124652733972480

mobile.twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1050011829014016000

SturdyEarmuffs · 11/10/2018 11:57

This follows on from an article on the stickers I believe? There was something about that twitter group handle linked to faux outrage at similar content on stickers planted all over Edinburgh in august.

I wonder if the Scottish government are going to come out & agree that the definition of women should be a banned term due to being offensive? I'd like to know if Sturgeon is on board with this utter nonsense.

arranfan · 11/10/2018 11:50

I'm looking forward to the results of Helen Staniland's polling

Apart from the fact it was funded, is there any update on that?

dragongirlx · 11/10/2018 11:47

Yep Alice its only offensive if women do it
Fowomen scot is a good GC account to follow on twitter

Their website also has some good resources (shameless plug)
Grin

eurochick · 11/10/2018 11:47

This is a bloody disgrace.

RiverTam · 11/10/2018 11:34

damn, the Equality Network now have my real name! oh well.

dragongirlx · 11/10/2018 11:30

Emailed Exterion, Lothian buses and ASA

also avoiding the equality network

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 11/10/2018 11:28

Women did complain once upon a time to Lothian buses for plastering the word "porno" everywhere. Apparently that is ok, but "woman" is disgusting and offensive. Or something.

mobile.twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1050301991891738624

LemonJello · 11/10/2018 11:07

Equality Network incorporate Scottish Trans Alliance I believe. They both have a very similar logo anyway.

RetroTardigrade · 11/10/2018 10:23

Email sent to Lothian Buses, comment submitted on Exterion Media's webpage. I'm not going to bother with the Equality Network as they look likea Kool-Aid factory to me.

breastfeedingclownfish · 11/10/2018 10:16

Those 'Dear Transphobes' posters which are sponsored by the Scottish Government and police Scotland, were on every single carriage on the Glasgow-Edinburgh train yesterday.

This bit especially got my goat.

"We believe everyone should be allowed to be themselves"

Except women. We aren't even allowed a word to name ourselves.

Definition of woman banned from buses in Edinburgh
ginghamstarfish · 11/10/2018 10:08

Just posted about this to the Edinburgh Evening News on FB, and will also try the Scotsman etc. It will probably be ignored but worth a try.

RiverTam · 11/10/2018 10:05

emails sent to Exterion and the Equality Network. Luckily it's a quiet day at work!

QuentinWinters · 11/10/2018 10:02

You have companies willing to have a woman with her arse out on a billboard but not the definition of woman. We can’t define ourselves but we can be sexually alluring to men on billboards

Brava Posie

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 11/10/2018 10:01

Blooming heck.

Between this and "womxn", I think the world's finally gorn mad.