BBC Woman’s hour

I've emailed them AGAIN.

We have to keep going.

Yes, there's a tweet from WPUK that is on point:

Maybe it’s BBCwomxnsHour these days. Very disappointed. If they won’t speak for women they should give up the name.

twitter.com/Womans_Place_UK/status/1049963554001080320

Very much of the zeitgeist

I will email again suggesting Womxn's and Mxnstruator's Hour.

As a slight aside, if Woman's Hour don't cover the 'womxn' controversy, they really should admit they can no longer fulfil their brief and end the farce.

(Autocorrect really does not want to accept the word womxn. I wonder how long it'll be until autocorrect is 're-educated'?)

Discriminated against because you breastfeed? You need to campaign with other breastfeeders, but of course you will need to rename yourself chestfeeders.

Or just don't bother. A couple of years ago a breastfeeding woman in the US lost a sex discrimination case against her employers because according to the judge "men can lactate too" so it's not discrimination when women are bullied out of jobs because of it.

DakiniTawa you may say that you can't see it happening, and yet it is happening. With respect you're moving the goalposts. You said you 'would not be happy to see this terminology extended to all women' and then when given examples of how it is being extended to all women you then said it was about being outnumbered. Which is your line in the sand?

I agree that kindness and respect are good things but I won't indulge this increasingly intrusive language and the concepts behind the language, because the cost is too high. Misogyny works against women and transwomen.

Well I have just emailed them to suggest they change the name of the programme to Woman’s and Menstruator’s Hour.

They will probably go for that

People that menstruate (aside from women) include trans men, non binary people, young girls, teenagers and some intersex people.

That will be the female intersex people then

Well I have just emailed them to suggest they change the name of the programme to Woman’s and Menstruator’s Hour. And suggested that they should be ashamed of themselves. Once again.

I'm non binary. I've just decided.

Do I get a special medal?

Pretty please?

Goodness the word menstruate is so old fashioned.

Words said by those who failed to recognise that there were gay people, gay, bisexual and lesbian and transsexuals.

Are men now going to be called emission people?

dakini I don’t believe cis gender do outnumber transgender

having read stonewall definitions of trans and cis both myself and dh would say that non binary gender is the cloest description of ourselves

Biologically still woman/man though. I still think it’s my sex not my gender that has led to discrimination in my life.

I simply cannot see it happening because (sorry to use the term) cisgender people will always outnumber transgender people by such a massive majority.

I don't know whether to laugh or weep.

This distortion of language is all about the push towards self-ID. Females make up 51% of the population. Add males of other vulnerable groups such as children, disabled adults, elderly and hospital patients, and you have a huge majority of the population whose rights are already being abused by the push towards self-ID. If self-ID becomes law language will mean whatever the loudest shouter wants it to mean. You may not mind other females calling themselves menstruators, but it won't be about what you mind.

It will be about what the loudest shouters want. Even though they make up a fraction of the population.

Dakini it isn't all about words though, is it? Those words are also used in laws, regulations, schools, prisons etc.

Those words put Karen White in the female estate... 4 women suffered sexual assaults because of those words.

Do you accept those women as collateral damage for your pleasantry?

DakiniTawa

Read the MNHQ guidelines and make that same comment without using banned terms. We are NOT C**GENDER.

You are right dakini in isolation this doesn't threaten you at all.

But in conjunction with all the other instances of sex being eradicated and replaced with gender it will at some point in your life (though I don't wish to assume you are female, of course), for reasons you will have read about, often, all those things that will never happen!

I wonder how much transmen actually demand this gaslighting language, and how much is bandwagon-jumping by 'woke' organisations reacting to transwomen's behaviour.

DakiniTawa where do you mean when you say 'I would not be happy to see this terminology extended to all women, but I can't see this happening here'? I have a friend who is a doula and lactation consultant who has attended a training programme to tell her to do just that, use the word chestfeeding as a replacement for breastfeeding across the board. I asked what's wrong with nursing as an acceptable way to take breasts out of the equation if necessary (she's a lactation consultant, but whatever you do don't use the word breast ffs) and she said the reason is that it doesn't translate to other languages (Spanish being the most pertinent to her in her work).

She also has to ask everyone which pronouns they use, but she must use chestfeeding for everyone, not just transpeople or those who use non-standard pronouns etc. Let me repeat she is required to replace breastfeeding with chestfeeding for every woman with whom she has professional contact.

She's in NYC though, not sure if you think that things that happen there can't happen here. I would say it's just a matter of time though, imo.

She's not a theoretical person I made up, this is a thing that actually happened.

But yes, it is happening.

That is very kind of you. I, however, do not think it kind to validate delusions or dishonesty. I consider it unkindness to pretend that a lie is the truth.

JellySlice if a person finds being called a female human upsetting, I am happy to call them whatever they want to be called. Makes no difference to me and does not threaten my status as a female human.

DakiniTawa these products are needed exclusively by female humans, adult and juvenile. Just to refresh your memory, the word for juvenile female human is girl, and the word for adult female human is woman.

The most inclusive way to describe the users of menstrual products is "women and girls". This is also the most accurate and respectful terminology. And it is clearly understood by everybody.

Triple whammy! Who knew language could be so clear and lovely?!

I came here to see if anyone else had noticed this. I think this has finally tipped me over the edge.

I’m completely on board with gender as a social construct - I studied sociology, I spent years debating gender - and people being transgender is no issue whatsoever to me, happy for people to live their lives however they are happy. But gender doesn’t cause menstruation, biological sex does. Humans are mammals, mammals are male or female (or intersex, but that’s not the norm and that’s not what seems to be being considered here). The female of the human mammal species menstruates, the male human does not, regardless of whether or not they want to portray themselves using the socially accepted norms of either gender construct.

It is dehumanising. It also means that every single thing that affects women gets separated out into a separate issues.

Discriminated against because you menstruate? You need to campaign with other menstruators.

Discriminated against because you breastfeed? You need to campaign with other breastfeeders, but of course you will need to rename yourself chestfeeders.

Discriminated against because you are pregnant? You need to campaign with other pregnant people.

Discriminated against when you applied for a job/promotion because you look like you might be pregnant in the near future? You need to campaign with other ... hmm. Maybe uterus havers or people who pass as uterus havers. That one's particularly catchy.

Discriminated against because you were assigned female at birth and are now developing wrinkles, grey hair and a less than perky figure? Tough, what do you expect, you witch! Be grateful we let you live.

There was a time when we could have said 'Oh look, this only happens to women ... and so does this ... and this .... It's almost as if all these things happen to women and not to men! Maybe we could band together and do something about it?' Not any more.