Too many women in powerful roles on TV

No I didn't mean you had said they should show the current ratio Nothing, that was purely my waffle l. I agree it is a conundrum and I see the argument that suggests that showing the world as all shinily equal with women doing whatever they want does clash with the reality we (and young women and girls) see every day. I guess the dilemma is how to show that women can and sometimes do do these jobs without implying that this is how it is now and no more work needs to be done to improve equal opportunities for women. All while making a watchable hour of drama

duggees But I think a lot of people see that stuff on TV and think it reflects the current reality and that we therefore don't need to do anything more to redress the balance.

Meanwhile, in real life, girls are being discouraged from every profession because they're told from other people, subconsciously or otherwise, that these jobs are not for them.

Or have I misunderstood you?

Did I say they should show the current sex ratios?

I said it was an interesting conundrum.

I think it is.

Yes Nothing the very fact that it is somewhat unrealistic means that it is important that we keep showing women doing varied roles at varied levels so that we show girls that they can indeed be astronauts/scientists/engineers/police chiefs etc as well as teachers/nurses etc. Far too many girls still believe that certain areas of employment are not for them because they are girls. Drama is just that - a fictional story but it should be thought provoking and ask 'what if?' if it's going to make much of an impact. Simply showing the sex ratios as they currently are would just compound the current imbalance not address it.

Uhura was a black woman in a role on the bridge and that was revolutionary in 1966 USA whether you agree with it or not

Nichelle Nichols says that the amount of black women who came to her and said that seeing her on the screen working with the bridge crew as if it was normal, when they were little girls, was an unbelievably massive deal.

So you don't like it, fair enough. This thread isn't about star trek. But it was aiming for something - and yes it was of it's time - that most sci fi series don't even bother with.

I see what they're saying.

I think it's kind of bs to just pretend that women are in all these strong powerful roles, when it's just not true.

What I want to see is well-written, realistic women characters. That doesn't have to mean that they are presidents/pilots/CEOs and whatnot. It doesn't have to mean that they are kicking ass or being sassy or sticking it to the men every ten seconds. Just that they are well-rounded and believable. And not always victims/prostitutes/down-trodden mums with tiny bit parts.

I read this article and was a bit about it. It's kind of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' - don't put women in high ranking roles to be realistic, get complaints that you're being sexist; cast women in high ranking roles and then get complaints that it's unrealistic.

But we DO have women in high ranking roles - Teresa May, whatever one thinks of her, is an actual, vagina-toting woman. As is Cressida Dick, Amber Rudd, Nicola Sturgeon, Angela Merkel etc etc. Not as many as men obviously but it's not particularly unusual these days. And it mostly goes uncommented on. Great.

I loved Killing Eve for the even balance of male and female characters (yes lots of familiar faces but so we're the men) and the way that Villanella was not controllable by the men who underestimated her because of her sex. Jodie Comer was just incredible, as was Sandra Oh.

Errol massive thumbs up to sci fi comment.

That as well has to be balanced with the fact that a lot of mainstream sci fi is nog standard male fantasy or written by people with no imagination or interest in exploring how things could be... women are sexy, controlled by violence, frequently prostituted , rape is a constant threat and there's a strip bar on every corner.

Depressing.

Guessing you're a star trek fan, me too :) Roddenberry may have been a bit of a dick in his personal life, but his vision of the future and a better version of humanity was revolutionary.

Mrs Brittas

I couldn't help that either

I liked the fact that Bodyguard balanced the female characters whose sex was relevant to the plot (Julia, the wife, the bomber, and to a lesser extent Chanel the intern), with a decent sprinkling of characters which could have been either male or female but they simply chose to cast a woman (Gina McKee, Mrs Brittas, female PPO, shooty train cop, sceptical cop Louise).

for me the important thing is that having women in a large chunk of the main roles makes a show that I want to watch. It’s interesting to me, and I don’t want to nitpick about if it’s been done right. We’re letting perfect be the enemy of good.

The vast majority of everyone - male and female alike- will never be a home secretary or a senior police officer and thankfully not a suicide bomber either, so I don’t think realism and the ability to identtify is the be all and end all.

I don’t think we always have to show women struggling with sexism either, I’m cool if for the purposes of drama we pretend it doesn’t happen because christ knows it’s not like I need reminded - my job does that

Again the other alternative is that the woman is there because she's a plot point.

I don't think that's the alternative. An alternative could be to have mainstream dramas and movies that included substantial and pivotal parts for women that reflect the jobs that they have tended to dominate - carer, teaching, nursing, stay at home mum, cleaning, etc.shop work.

Nursing sometimes gets that treatment, but the others are normally only covered in media aimed at women rather than general audiences.

I would say a bit of normalisation is a good thing but not to the point where it's unbelievable or to the point that it looks like feminism has won, and we can all go home.

It's such a tricky one, because yes of course you want to show the problems that women face in positions of power but at the same time too much of a social message will lead to a backlash.

That's funny as I was just thinking the other evening that the last few dramas I have watched have featured black women senior police detectives and barristers. It doesn't seem reflective of reality. Wishful thinking, virtue signalling or air brushing? I don't know.

Haha thanks Golden. I never thought I was wise enough to give lightbulb moments! Especially before 7 in the morning.

rita you’re right! That’s a massive lightbulb moment for me!

Yes, that's a huge problem, Ifyou.

I agree with her in a way.

The problem is that the media only sees women as interesting enough to tell stories about when they are doing the jobs that men do.

I can see the point that it gives people the wrong impression of how easy it is for women (and therefore why they might need laws to protect them from sex discrimination or why there is a pay gap). TV is often escapist, but not all of it should be escapist in the same way.

But isnt the point of entertainment to see something made up? I agree that women have done quite well in high up jobs, but the last thing I would want to see if I were to switch on a telly would be men threatening women with rape for daring to speak.