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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So what *is* non-binary?

62 replies

BareBelliedSneetch · 09/10/2018 16:12

Not being goady, honest!

But I got myself lost in this tweet

twitter.com/sophierunning/status/1049552156402077696?s=21

It’s full of people saying “that’s not what non-binary means” and “maybe you should do the listening” but no one actually explaining it.

It seems that non-binary has nothing to do with gender conformity. And you can be an adult human female, and present as femme. And still be non-binary. Which just confuses my little head.

Can anyone help?

(And help me make it clicky?)

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SomeDyke · 09/10/2018 17:08

"I really really want to reply "2... 3.... 4..." to the question in the title."
Smile

On a recent BBC webpage (which had a selection of 'young people' who seemed ridiculously ignorant of basic safer sex information BTW), we had a non-binary transman. I think that means you can have a beard, but don't consider yourself to be a man, or not exclusively. Or something/anything................
It's as important as anyone elses subjective description of their own experience, but for that reason, not necessarily terribly interesting to anyone else who doesn't share other people's obsession with gender identities.

Myself, I'm not binary, I'm octal (but hexadecimal on Thursdays)...........

Frequency · 09/10/2018 17:07

To me non-binary is pretty much everyone who isn't trans. No-one fits exclusively into the 'woman' or 'man' gender box.

To woke teen DD non-binary is people who strongly reject one gender one day or hour or minute but accept it at another point. Or someone who strongly rejects various aspects of one gender while accepting others and vice versa.

I'm not non-binary despite my aversion to pink, small children and glitter and love of tech though she can't explain why. Apparently I am agender as I don't have strong associations to either gender.

The whole thing is bullshit if you ask me. They are making more boxes to put people in while accusing those who don't believe in the trans narrative of being small minded Hmm

TheSteakBakeOfAwesome · 09/10/2018 16:58

I really really want to reply "2... 3.... 4..." to the question in the title.

SPOFS · 09/10/2018 16:54

From those I've met, most non-binary people are surprisingly sexist...

horizonglimmer · 09/10/2018 16:33

When I've read accounts by people who define as non-binary they just seem to be rejecting societal sex stereotypes for men and women. I get that but I can't follow their logic into this meaning that they are neither man or women, or male or female. You can say 'fuck you' to sex stereotypes and still be a woman/man who lives life on his/her own terms. I mean, that was what feminism was all about!

arranfan · 09/10/2018 16:32

Dr Jane Clare Jones addresses something like this issue in her: A note on 'smashing the binary'

What I want to do here then is think through what ‘smashing the binary’ would or should mean in its original context, and to lay out the fundamental conceptual mistake in how it’s being thought in trans ideology. My claim – surprise! – is that this conceptual mistake is so dramatic that when trans ideologues and their allies wheel out some vague-ish claim that they’re leading us to liberation by ‘undoing’ or ‘challenging’ binaries, they are, in fact, repeating exactly the problem that the original critique of ‘binaries and why they are bad’ was trying to address. What this comes down to is that people don’t understand the distinction between ‘a binary’ and ‘a difference.’

janeclarejones.com/2018/10/01/a-note-on-smashing-the-binary/

UpstartCrow · 09/10/2018 16:28

Here, this explanation makes as much sense as any;

www.healthline.com/health/transgender/nonbinary

What is nonbinary?
The term “nonbinary” can mean different things to different people. At its core, it’s used to describe someone whose gender identity isn’t exclusively male or female.

If someone tells you they’re nonbinary, it’s always important to ask what being nonbinary means to them. Some people who are nonbinary experience their gender as both male and female, and others experience their gender as neither male nor female.

Nonbinary can also be used as an umbrella term, encompassing many gender identities that don’t fit into the male-female binary.

UpstartCrow · 09/10/2018 16:27

There is no definitive definition of non binary!
Each person decides what they think it means then argues their point. I wish I were joking, I'm not.
Identity politics is useless and divisive, it creates and supports hierarchies

BareBelliedSneetch · 09/10/2018 16:20

Not saying.

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BareBelliedSneetch · 09/10/2018 16:20

@UpstartCrow but that’s exactly what all the people on that thread are saying is wrong. And then it saying what it is Hmm

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UpstartCrow · 09/10/2018 16:17

If you believe in 'non binary' it means you believe that girls like pink and dresses because they are girls - even if you can't actually explain what 'girls' are or how to define them.

Gileswithachainsaw · 09/10/2018 16:14

It's bollocks tbh. Everyone isnon binary because not everyone fits fully into gender boxes.

It's personality. That's all.