Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

The aftermath of the intern data leak?

91 replies

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 08/10/2018 15:17

Has anything has been done to tighten security in compliance with law after the incident in April when the paid intern doxxed the women of FWR and drove so many Feminists off the site?

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/apr/19/mumsnet-reports-itself-data-regulator-transgender-rights-row-ip-addresses-posted-twitter

OP posts:
DereksSexyPyjamas · 12/10/2018 10:30

I also think it’s worth pointing out that Emma has caused a huge amount of damage to your brand. Although I have great sympathy for the modteam who, for the most part are doing an incredibly difficult job and doing it very well indeed. Flowers to the lot of you, but it only takes one bad apple, and the result is that I actively feel unsafe using Mumsnet now.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/10/2018 10:26

Oh jinx Derek!

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/10/2018 10:26

Thanks for the reply Kate, I appreciate you engaging.

I understand that it is reasonable for MN to have access to all the content they host, including PMs.

However from your reply I imply that MN staff accessing PMs is not logged.

Site users often use PMs to exchange sensitive and personal information.

I think it would be a sensible precaution to log any attempts by MN staff to access PMs, to prevent this access being abused.

Could you give your view on this?

DereksSexyPyjamas · 12/10/2018 10:22

Thank you, Kate.

Staff with mod clearance are able to look at PMs, and they very occasionally do so if they believe that it's necessary in order to protect other users. Once PMs are deleted they can't be viewed or retrieved.

Are these access attempts logged in any way?

Waspnest · 12/10/2018 10:20

Yes I'm pretty pissed off that her Linkedin profile lists her impressively long list of responsibilities at MN whilst completely ignoring the carnage she caused. I get my revenge by slagging her off every time someone mentions CAMRA in conversation.

breastfeedingclownfish · 12/10/2018 10:12

I don't think it's vindictive to want some type of follow up to her behaviour? Does she swan off to her next job with her history of this completely erased? Is mumsnet going to provide a reference? If so, will it be a personal reference? Will you include the details of this event?

She is an unethical person who was reckless with the information of others. Getting off scotfree after abusing her position and publicly calling women 'bigots' seems to me entirely unfair.

KateMumsnet · 12/10/2018 09:50

While I understand and am completely happy with the idea that employees are entitled to hold their own opinions, I think I'd like some sort of reassurance that - expressing this sort of attitude towards users of the site is completely unacceptable within MNHQ

Absolutely - we'd never condone language like this and we'd take it extremely seriously if we came across it. Hand on heart, though, I've never heard anything remotely like this in the ten years I've been at MNHQ.

- the 'friends of Emma' who still work at MNHQ understand that they should be applying modding in an evenhanded and fair way

As you say, MN staff are entitled to hold their own opinions, but it's a point of principle that we moderate according to the TGs, regardless of personal views. Inevitably, different people will make different decisions - though we think that what often looks like a variation between moderators is actually because the context of the decision is different. We're always happy to take another look at something if you think we may have missed the mark somewhere.

If they're not actively dealing with troll activity, then for what purpose do the senior team members need to view IP addresses? What, in practice, is this information being used for?

The senior team will occasionally moderate tricky situations directly themselves, so they need to have top-level access.

Secondly, are the IP addresses constantly viewable, or does it need to be accessed separately, i.e. by clicking on a link to the user's profile, which might be key-logged.

IPs are available on the admin view of a thread, so that mods can make decisions as quickly as possible.

Finally, what level of access do staff have to private messages, including deleted messages, and are attempts to access these logged in any way?

Staff with mod clearance are able to look at PMs, and they very occasionally do so if they believe that it's necessary in order to protect other users. Once PMs are deleted they can't be viewed or retrieved.

Melamin · 12/10/2018 08:58

I would like to know if the 'friends' (or others like them who seem to have their own modding agenda) are still working. It all sounds very insecure to me. It is worse than the Jeffrey debacle, because it was on the quiet, from the inside and I do not feel reassured that it is not still going on.

RollerJed · 12/10/2018 08:37

Following, curious about this now.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 12/10/2018 08:28

I was wondering about legal recourse too - could the women who were affected pursue their own complaint?

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 11/10/2018 23:57

I wonder if the women who were affected have legal recourse? Does anyone know? Is it one of those things where you need deep pockets?

LangCleg · 11/10/2018 22:40

I don't regard this as an acceptable response, if I'm honest.

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 11/10/2018 22:24

I don't care if it was unintentional, the effect on the women who had their data publicly released will be the same regardless of intent. I don't see why the consequences for her should be any less if it was unintentional

It hardly seems like good practice, how does allowing her to go on her merry way with an unblemished record act as any kind of a deterrent to other employees of the same unscrupulous bent?

We haven't heard anything about her "friends" who remained at Mumsnet and were still feeding her information. Were they ever identified?

OP posts:
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 11/10/2018 13:57

we're as sure as we possibly can be that the tweeting of three posters' IP addresses was genuinely unintentional

I don't care if it was unintentional, the effect on the women who had their data publicly released will be the same regardless of intent. I don't see why the consequences for her should be any less if it was unintentional to be honest.

I am very unsatisfied by this.

DereksSexyPyjamas · 11/10/2018 12:37

Hi @MNHQ, is there any update on the further questions and when we can expect a response, please?

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 10/10/2018 13:34

Yes I’d love to know if friends of Emma are actively modding on FWR.

pennydrew · 10/10/2018 12:27

It’s not about revenge, it’s about appropriate punishment under the law. Which MN aren’t actually responsible for.

I’m interested in why the police didn’t persue this legally.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 10/10/2018 12:20

Companies can and should take sensible precautions to make data theft very difficult.

However it is impossible to lock data down enough to make it impossible because you need some appropriate access to enable people to do their jobs

therefore the other thing companies need in place are strong deterrents so that employees understand that the consequences of data theft make it not worth it

So while I've no desire to see Emma Healey prosecuted out of revenge, I would like to be clear that she suffered serious consequences for her actions, because that is part of keeping the data of site users safe in future

I understand for example that she still lists MN on her linked in profile - this does not really indicate that she understands that she left under a cloud

StealthNinjaMum · 10/10/2018 12:06

@MNHQ

I would also like to hear that perhaps all her computers and devices at home were checked and there was a thorough investigation.

Even if she 'inadvertently' found herself stealing data, putting in online, insulting us('transphobic scum') and making further threats about 'insiders' I believe it should be seen that her actions have been scrutinised in a way that will act as a deterrent so that no-one else will join Mumsnet with intentions of doxxing us.

StealthNinjaMum · 10/10/2018 12:02

I'm not satisfied. I think Emma needs to be prosecuted in some way. Can you imagine if one of us had doxxed her?

Perhaps we should report her to Yorkshire police for hate crime.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 10/10/2018 10:39

what level of access do staff have to private messages, including deleted messages, and are attempts to access these logged in any way?

I would very much appreciate an answer to this @MNHQ

FekkoTheLawyer · 10/10/2018 10:38

But she went on social media and and confessed - even hinted that there was more to come?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 10/10/2018 10:37

Thanks for the reply Michael, and it's good to hear that you've made steps to protect potentially sensitive information

I think for me however there's another question which is to do with the tone that is tolerated in MNHQ

Here's a tweet by the woman in question where she refers to users of this site as transphobic scum, and says she has friends who still work here. While I understand and am completely happy with the idea that employees are entitled to hold their own opinions, I think I'd like some sort of reassurance that

  • expressing this sort of attitude towards users of the site is completely unacceptable within MNHQ
  • the 'friends of Emma' who still work at MNHQ understand that they should be applying modding in an evenhanded and fair way, without allowing their personal political or religious beliefs to affect decision making

I have seen some very uneven modding on this board, and wonder if this attitude toward users of the site is still in place among some at MNHQ?

The aftermath of the intern data leak?
DereksSexyPyjamas · 10/10/2018 10:31

Thanks, Michael. I have a couple of further questions:

As soon as we became aware of the data breach we removed IP addresses from the admin view of the site. They're now only visible to a restricted number of vetted moderation staff who need to access users' registration data and IP addresses to reduce troll activity, and to a small number of senior team members.

Firstly, if they're not actively dealing with troll activity, then for what purpose do the senior team members need to view IP addresses? What, in practice, is this information being used for? Secondly, are the IP addresses constantly viewable, or does it need to be accessed separately, i.e. by clicking on a link to the user's profile, which might be key-logged.

Finally, what level of access do staff have to private messages, including deleted messages, and are attempts to access these logged in any way?

Thank you.

pennydrew · 10/10/2018 09:59

From what I understand, she bragged about doing it and having people ‘on the inside’?

That’s not inadvertent. That’s deliberate. But ok, upshot is she got away with it 💁🏽‍♀️