"over 70% of unprovoked street attacks were men being violent to other men."

I also think most decent men would intervene if a young schoolgirl was being sexually harassed.

And yet almost every woman here will have been sexually harassed as a schoolgirl, and in most cases nobody will have intervened.

To put it into language that you might understand, "you know nothing, Jon Snow".

NothingOnTellyAgain

I find your examples strange. I can't recall ever telling or hearing rape jokes amongst my groups of friends. It's not a topic of conversation for most men, I can assure you.

I also think most decent men would intervene if a young schoolgirl was being sexually harassed. I don't believe any decent person would walk past man or woman. Shouting "give us a blowjob" to a schoolgirl is vile. Not banter in any shape or form and I cant imagine any reasonable man thinking it is.

As for the Sun. It's a disgusting paper imo. However, I find the Mail and The Express to be extremely xenophobic and the Mirror and Guardian very disparaging to the working class.

Telling people what newspaper to read seems a tad too far.

It's like telling a random person to sort out global warming due to it being a human problem.

I'd suggest it's more like getting that random person to start thinking of ways they could reduce their personal carbon footprint by e.g. using a more efficient car, washing at 30 degrees, buying local food. For the more interested people, they could lobby the government, support charities like WWF etc.

Strangely people like you scott can't even be arsed to suggest simple ways men could help. There are lots and lots of men do them. Such as challenging misogynist banter from their friends. Not watching porn. Treating women as human beings.

Oh dear, I’m guessing Scott doesn’t have a wife or a girlfriend. It’s not hard to see why. I bet he just can’t find a woman who’ll do what he tells her, or they’re all just gold diggers. If the bitches would just do as they were told he wouldn’t have to be so bitter.

Anyway, I’d better go and do the drying up before I cook tea, and when DS gets back I’ll finish that violence lesson I was teaching him earlier. It’s so much easier to destroy his young mind now I’ve left his abusive alcoholic father. I get to twist him up all by myself with no positive male influence around the place wrecking all my evil work.

Anyhoo back to OP.

If you really want to engage with the bloke you are talking to

You can give him that BBC article and say, this is why women and girls are fearful, but of course it's not reflected in violent crime stats. But, it is still entirely understandable that being subject to this so much makes us wary + teh constant messages that we are (essentially) prey >> travel in packs, never leave your friends, check your drinks, don't walk alone after dark, dont' walk home with a man you don't know, don't walk home with a man you don't know that well, etc etc.

With these two facts combined, it's hardly surprising that women and girls are fearful walking alone at night.

You can google yourself for multiple examples of rape without additional violence not being seen as violence.

I'm not going to do it for you

Highly inappropriate = hurummph but not do anything

I am looking for TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

there;s a bloke in my office reads the Sun, Scott.

I work in financial services. He's definitely not builder

I'm sorry to say you are just plain wrong. Rape is a crime that is my word against yours, even with physical harm, even if you kill me.

UpstartCrow.

I'm not going to listen to a frankly ludicrous fantasy of "what men think" - as a man myself I know better.

It's an odd hobby, spending your time having pointless argument with women who think you're an idiot.

But shout "give me a blowjob" at her and it's just banter.

Most people would see this as a highly inappropriate thing to shout at a child. And your statement about rape not being seen as violence without physical damage is ludicrous I'm sorry to say....

There's a reason rapists get boiling water poured on their privates in prison/brooms shoved up their derriere (and it's not women doing this). Even criminal blokes largely hate rapists.

Here to lecture but not to listen. This is going well.

I don't know any blokes that read the Sun. It's almost the stereotype of the 'hairy arsed builder' that most people seem to think do.

Of course there are uncouth blokes, just like there are gold digging women who want to be paid for by men. It's the nature of the world.

Most men and women will understand it is bad if they see a man hit a schoolgirl on the street.

But shout "give me a blowjob" at her and it's just banter.

The lack of physical injury makes it minimal - sticks and stones and all that. Our reading of what is bad and what is not bad are set by what is more likely to happen to men.

Even rape is not seen as violence unless there is physical damage as well.

|It is within the power of the "average western bloke" to shut down rape jokes in the pub, tell the boss it's anappropriate to read the sun in the office, and intervene if he sees a schoolgirl being sexually harrassed.

Most men do NOT do this though, women and girls know becasue we have been there.
We know it is left to us , as "womens issues" and men don't care, we also know that as per previous post, men do not listen to us. They don't listen when we say, leave us alone, that rape joke wasn't funny, it makes me feel uncomfortable when you read the Sun in the office.

Most men do NOT care about what happens to women and children, unless they are "theirs". Nor what happens to otehr men.

It's all left to women and we have tried and tried and men wont listen they're not interested.

We are ASKING for help and being told NO over and over. 1/3 of girls in school uniform sexually harrassed. This was the same when I was at school decades ago. If men were to say, this is not acceptable, it would reduce massively. Only the most hardcore bastards would do it. At the moment it's pretty much socially acceptable. And the girls are blamed.

These things are non trivial in our lives, they make us feel like shit, starting when we're like 12 or 10 even.
Of course we get angry. We have daughters now and flag it and then men on the internet say oh yeah it'll be their mums faults.

It's easy to say that 'men' as a group hold the power, but this doesn't that the average bloke on the street has much influence.

It's like telling a random person to sort out global warming due to it being a human problem.

"a certain type that would rather moan about men on the internet whilst putting the responsibility on the everyday western bloke to resolve problems largely out of his reach and for which he is largely not responsible for."

I see..............

Men should not father children if they don't intend to raise them. It appears to be damaging to the children.
People who are left raising children alone should receive adequate income. Poverty damages children.

Lets start there.

It has been shown that in areas with a lot of gang issues, where there is poverty, where there are high rates of single parent (mother) families,

That male role models in the community can help.

Seems (not an expert area) that young men do NOT listen to their mums, and are more likely to listen to other men. Why this is > another thread.

This is something that has been shown to definitely hlpe though.

Where men set up these role model and mentoring schemes in certian areas, get funding from usual sources (have to bid etc), it has a massive beneficial impact.

Scott, this is something you might like to consider, if you are looking or constructive ideas here.

Don't you think if we were able to stop it then we would?

I'm sure that most women would stop it if it were easily within their power.

However, most people, male or female, in the UK are not in the position to stop wars and there seems to be a certain type that would rather moan about men on the internet whilst putting the responsibility on the everyday western bloke to resolve problems largely out of his reach and for which he is largely not responsible for.

I'm not convinced that these people are generally at the pointy end of the wars which you mention.

On the OP:

There was this news report the other day on BBC
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45777787

He asserts that women are foolish to be scared because men are more at risk of violent attack.

Few points here.
Something doesn't have to involve physical injury for it to make the person on the receiving end fearful. Women and girls are subject to frequent harrassment and so on, which does not leave physical injiry but does leave us scared. It is not unreasonable for us to be scared.
Sexual crimes are generally not included in the violent stats. Things tend to be measured in terms of "things that are likely to happen to men" > so physical assault which causes injury is seen as being "worse" than say a 15yo girl being cornered by some men and felt up and they won't let her go and they're laughing.

Now I've been both sexually assaulted and had a random bit of the violence men get more (punched in the face by a stranger) and for ME, the sexual assault was much much worse. I had a suspected broken jaw from the punch, I wasn't injured from the sexual assault, but it still makes me feel upset, angry, powerless thinking about it today.

IN SHORT it's not a competition. The things that happen to us are different. Both need addressing. The fact of street harrassment and so on for girls and women is not trivial just because we dont' have some bruises to show.

Men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of both types and to lay this at the door of women is crass. IF we could change it then we would, wouldn't we. Men have the POWER as they control (all?) societies around the world. They COULD change it. There is no appetite to. Most men dont' really care, I think.

Just catching up.

Women have been trying to stop male violence forever. We do not like being beaten, raped, having our children raped, murdered, all the awful stuff that goes on all over the world. We are generally less interested in war, and massively effected (although what happens to women and children in war is only just starting to be seen). We are used as chattels - literally - around the world still sometimes in the most horrifying ways.

Don't you think if we were able to stop it then we would?

Turph,

I can't answer all those questions off the top of my head without careful consideration, but I'd wager that at least part of it comes down to a lack of respect/fear of the mother figure - possibly further ingrained by the way society posits men as 'the ones in charge' (or certainly has a history of doing).

Many adolescent males seem to reach that rebellious stage of 'challenging' their father's authority and this may be something that some women are less able to deal with, or understand less than men who are more used to a competitive/aggressive hierarchy.

These are just thoughts and I may be talking complete rubbish.

Although I appreciate the sentiment, I think demanding that all men do something to tackle male violence is likely to fall on deaf ears.

It's akin to asking what the average Muslim in Luton is doing to tackle extremist behaviour carried out by isis.

A different approach needs to be taken and in my eyes it begins with education and nurturing from the earliest of ages. When society grows up knowing from birth all violence is to be deplored then perpetrators will be taken to task far more comprehensively, and given time, those masculine traits can be neutered. No amount of marches or strongly worded tweets will do anything worthwhile at present.

We could stop a lot of male perpetrators of violence through education, but that'll still leave some awful individuals unwilling to control their actions. I suppose we'd be forced into considering directly affecting genetics at that point, ie breeding out those terrible male attributes.

Agreed!