Help me have a conversation with DH

Stop trying to convince him!

Keep ranting about the various bad things that keep happening. Say you know he might not share your opinion but you have to vent.

Give him space to change his mind without having to admit you are right.

Let's face it, the facts are what peaked most of us, not someone talking us into it.

I think DH thought I was spending too much time on twatter and MN and it was all exaggerated. I chipped away, pointed out real examples whenever possible and he got it. The other day I came in and found him in full flow to his friend about Karen White, totally peak transing him. I was proud.

How frustrating. I don’t have a DP but my Dad gets it completely. He got it firstly from a concern about free speech and noting that certain voices were being silenced. But then he got it further because of having a good knowledge of how dodgy male sexuality can be. He knows. All men know. Even the NAMALT men know.

Your DH is currently unwilling to think. I hope he decides to start thinking.

I think sometimes feminists make this topic too difficult. I just say to people, "in the current climate, all it takes for a bloke to stride in to the women's showers at the community pool where I am naked and undress right in front of me and wiggle his dangly bits, is for him to claim he feels girly for an hour."

"Most men are decent blokes who are not interested in assaulting women but ask yourself why a DECENT person with a penis would deliberately scare the crap out of random women like that?"

I say it slowly, firmly, clearly, while looking them right in the eye. Calmly.

"I should have the right to set my own sexual boundaries, to set limits, to decide for myself who I disrobe in front of, and who gets naked in front of me. Would you disagree?"

I have never had anybody say no. Try having THAT convo, and if your husband still pretends to be clueless, then... staying married to such a garbage manbaby is up to you.

My only justification to myself is that he doesn't understand as his sex isn't under threat and whilst he has been beaten up and has had the threat of being beaten up by other men he doesn't have the threat or experience of sexual assault so he doesn't get it and I can't ask him to understand that , only to try to understand it.

I don't know, I think he's trying but I can't articulate it well and he shits down so I don't push too much on him as he can't cope with all the scary shit that's out there!

If he not concerned that you could be stalked, harassed, raped, trapped and intimidated in the women's bathroom by a person-who-says-he-feels-girly-for-an-hour...

If he does not understand that some percentage of males would gleeful enjoy any excuse to do any of the above...

If he has no empathy for any of the above...

your husband is... just pretending to be clueless. I'd start downloading, printing out, and perusing at the dinner table lots of pamphletes about divorce. Don't say anything, just see how clueless he pretends to be. And then divorce him. Why stay married to someone who hates women?

Men pretend all the time not to understand what women need. It's the first tool in their toolbox for acting like a manchild while his wife does all the work of taking care of the manbaby.

On the plus side though I've trans peaked my DM and DF who are going to complete it and share with friends, based on Challenor, White and Stefoknee (which was a new one on me, I only spotted yesterday WTAF???)

@LambChopsMcGee happy to meet another likeminded MNer! It's so tough isn't it? I tried to peak trans DH today with the story of Rachel McKinnon. Thought it would be easy as he's into sport - all sport - but he basically said this person wants to compete and it's tricky.

I'm on the verge of giving up as we are making headway on the single use plastic (and that took me about 3 months to get him to consider solid shampoo) and I might take it one battle at a time.

We have a DS and I do wonder sometimes if it would be different if we had a DD. And even thinking this makes me very sad.

If anything it has made me turn to all the sensible folk on here as he tends to shut down the discussion so it doesn't get discussed and I know I can come here for more info, a rant or a chat and know I'm not crazy or overreacting.

Well, that's the irony Djnoun. I haven't had to do any persuading or convincing at all - certainly no forcing.

Aimee and David Challoner, Jess Bradley, Lily Madigan, Stefonknee, Danielle Muscato, Jacinta Brooks, Karen White have done the convincing very, well... convincingly!

@OhHolyJesus

Are you me? I also talk mostly about GRA/trans stuff and single use plastics. And one other hobby.

I feel for you OP. This can put real strain on relationships! I'm very glad my DP sees it my way. In fact he had his eyes open when I was still painfully woke...

The James Kirkup piece and the other one in the Spectator were good, has your DH read them?

I think democracy kind of depends on people trying to persuade other people about stuff...

I don't particularly care what his opinion is, as long as he isn't dedicating a portion of his life to trying to force everyone to think the same way he does. That way madness lies.

My DH does have his own opinion now that he has seen the evidence.

I don't think you'd like his opinion, Djnoun, and I'd be banned if I repeated it here.

What is this obsession with indoctrinating other people? Let him have his own opinion without badgering him.

When I had this conversation with DH, he refused to believe a word of it because he couldn't believe in anything so ridiculous.
He kept on "So you're saying that..."
and I would reply "Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying! It's happening now!"
I showed him pictures of Stefonknee, and Danielle Muscato. He gradually began to understand until he was convinced.

Seeing the article about the delightful Jacinta Brooks has ultra-peaked him faster and higher than Lhakpa Gelu, but then we do have a 9 year old DD.

@NanooCov

Funny enough I mentioned that I was furious with the labour party and wanted to cancel my membership ( he pays for us both) and he said no, I was out of order and the best thing to do was to stay a member, wait for labour to get in and then try to change things. I am going to cancel it next time he asks me to amend his direct debits and standing orders but in the mean time I have sent several complaints to the labour party and JC about Lily Madigan and the shite they spout on twitter.

A lot of what has been said above - sadly - rings true for me and my husband. He agrees with me that the GRA reforms are bonkers and potentially put women in danger. Sadly he seems to not be too worried though as he feels it'll never happen, trans people are a tiny minority and so the risk is small, people in his immediate life are unlikely to need to use a refuge or be in prison so can't see the immediate problem. We also don't have daughters, only sons.

The things that are slowly helping him come to see the risk are the examples about personal care given above and also explaining (again and again) that trans people may be a tiny minority but sadly there are many many people that are not "genuine" trans that will use the GRA for nefarious purposes.

He still has moments of stupidity that annoy the shit out of me though. When I was talking to him about the girl guide leaders that were expelled for disagreeing with guiding's policies his simple solution was for trans kids to join the scouts, where both sexes are allowed. Still hasn't got his head around toileting and sleeping arrangements obviously

He also scoffed at me expressing that I felt politically orphaned as there is nobody left for me to vote for because of this issue. He said there were far more important things to worry about when selecting a political party to affiliate yourself with. Arse.

I have said to him the reason he probably doesn't place as much importance on this issue as I do is probably simply down to the fact he has a penis and doesn't need to worry about sexual assault as much as me. He conceded that was probably true and said he would try to put himself in my shoes more.

It's been an interesting year so far!

Have to say though, I don't get your husband's logic about "sneaky" ways to discriminate/achieve your goals. We have experienced the same (we have a disabled son) and it makes me furious so would never suggest it as a legitimate form of action. That's slightly bonkers really.

Just show him the video of Michele Moore on the WPUK page on youtube. Parents have lost custody of their children for refusing to agree their child had changed sex. If you had a son, and they claimed to be a daughter, you are not allowed to say " Why do you think that?".

Also shows how crime stats can increase in communal facilities. Even Duncan bannatyne has openly said his gyms will stay male/female by sex as it is asking for trouble.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

An article on how many women ( just like us) have been intimidated and threatened for having the audacity to speak up.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/be-kinder-on-gender-begs-jan-morris-6xb9rrhwx

I do know how you feel. My husband is 16 years older than me. Its never been an issue but this year I have really taken a more active role in feminism and made a point of asserting my boundaries and saying no as often as I feel like. He is not a fan. He is old school, says im being intentionally inflammatory and we have argued massively over the difference in our beliefs. He constantly throws in "whataboutery" and NAMALT and I can genuinely see us divorcing over this unless he supports me more.

He was really unimpressed when I said I was taking our youngest to Filia (aged ten) and she just shot him a glare and very calmly said that she was a modern day suffragette and he had no right to say what we can and can't do for our hobby. I was a v proud mum!

ltb

I tried my DH but he has too much faith in common sense.
"Surely that isn't what they are consulting on"
"Surely they won't actually change the law"

And then, but there can't be many of these people so the risks are small.
He gets the issues and doesn't agree, but just doesn't believe the government would really do this.

I tried talking to a friend yesterday but we didn't get far as she just didn't believe that there could be such a thing as transgender. Why would you want to change? I think for some people it's such madness they can't get their heads round the fact that it's real.

Just filled the document. I'm so angry now!

I'm confused - so he thinks that lesbians should be able to base their choices on the basis of sex not gender identification??

Sounds like he's a radical feminist. Tell him welcome to the cause.

(Obviously I'm not saying that radical feminist think that people should be able to be excluded from public bars)

Is he a bit thick?