Given that nearly every university student seems to believe TWAW, will sanity ever prevail?

So the impression I'm getting is that from the perspective of the majority of students the ones pushing this stuff are nerdy oddballs who, having had no social status at all when younger, are now reveling in the power that the rise of gender bollocks has given them, and the other students mostly try to avoid them. But at the same time are to scared to confront them and/or don't think it's worth the hassle.

That is 100% what I am hearing from my own teenagers and others.

So the impression I'm getting is that from the perspective of the majority of students the ones pushing this stuff are nerdy oddballs who, having had no social status at all when younger, are now reveling in the power that the rise of gender bollocks has given them, and the other students mostly try to avoid them. But at the same time are to scared to confront them and/or don't think it's worth the hassle.

I can totally see why "ignore them and hope they go away" would be an attractive option, but the problem is it's not working, and they're being taken seriously by organizations, the government, etc.

Try asking the feminist groups at uni though. From what I have seen they are all on board with it.
The next generation of feminists may be lost to it .

It's true that feminist and womens' group have been taken over by TRAs, but student feminism hasn't. We/they just meet in the pub instead, and let that bunch of po-faced killjoys sit in the SU sipping lukewarm tea and wondering why no one come along to their meetings and socials.

I am a student, I promise you we don't. Very few students go along with it, but admitting that publicly is social and academic suicide.

'When I reference academic journals people complain they can't get access. When I don't, people complain it's not academic. '

sci-hub.tw/

We'll ignore my (highly negative) opinion on the closed access academic journals. Open Access can't come soon enough!

Tbf deepwatersolo I came to same conclusion as you, armed with my GCSE in ‘science’.

I can also access academic journals, so eagerly await instructions on where I might be enlightened.

I'm not aware of any intersex conditions in which a female person would have a fully functional penis, but perhaps spanna will enlighten us.

The point is, sex and gender are not just about gametes. Eg what do you do with a genetically female person who has grown a functioning set of male genitals?

No worries, courtesy my PhD in biochemistry I am capable of reading scientific papers and generally do have access to them.
You, howver, have just conflated sex and gender in the sentence cited by me, which makes me question your scientific literacy. And sex clearly is a matter of gamete.

I eagerly await your link to the peer reviewed study about - what did you just claim? Ah right: A female person (by definition having a body designed to produce ova) with a naturally grown penis.
#goodluckwiththat

Think back to your university days, how much of the beliefs that you had then do you still hold now? I'd guess not many, university is a time for trying out and questioning different beliefs.

I haven’t touched my tarot deck since I was 21, but it's still in the drawer so I can have fun when I’m an old lady crank and do readings for all the other gin-swilling dames in Shady Pines.

I think not only are kids being brainwashed into thinking they are kinder and more enlightened than the previous generation, but also scared to be different, with the whole of social media waiting to pounce on you for any deviation. Oh the irony!

Dd says there is a "just converted" person in her class this year. Before the summer holidays one gender, now the other. The form tutor carefully used the new name, but then slipped up during the lesson. The teacher was mortified and was going, "Oh, God, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry - Oh, I didn't mean it" and dd and her friends said afterwards it was if the teacher was terrified that the authorities would burst into the room and carry her off for this "crime".

Dh and I were saying that we are starting to somewhat understand old people who didn't understand why their comments were deemed racist; maybe if things continue as they are we will all be considered nasty bigoted old duffers for calling someone the wrong pronoun or perhaps any pronoun.

When I reference academic journals people complain they can't get access. When I don't, people complain it's not academic.

Anyhoo.

The point is, sex and gender are not just about gametes. Eg what do you do with a genetically female person who has grown a functioning set of male genitals?

it's made me aware of the importance of trying to teach a child how to think rationally rather than what to think.

I hope we are doing this as well.

We watch a lot of history and science programs - and give them books I hope will get them thinking.

And here's a good summary (in a medical website, not a support group, pressure group or charity and from 2013 so before 'the trend') of why the science of sex and gender is far more complicated and up for discussion than people want it to be

If one of my students used that as a reference they would not be getting a very good grade. Not academic journal, not peer reviewed, fairly old.

I'm not saying there is definitely NOT a peer reviewed, academic journal article on this topic-but that is not an example of one.

It is patently absurd how some people insist on the 'not real maleness, because nature made sex a spectrum' of males in dresses whose natural adult body could easily impregnate any fertile female at any time.

And here's a good summary (in a medical website, not a support group, pressure group or charity and from 2013 so before 'the trend') of why the science of sex and gender is far more complicated and up for discussion than people want it to be

You are making my point. This is not a scientific paper, the author is not a scientist (just a family MD), and the article was not peer reviewed and conflates sex and gender. This has nothing to do with science.

Humans are still a dimorphic species as there are only two types of gamete.

I'd pay good money to watch the TRAs tell this lot that a woman can have a penis.

And here's a good summary (in a medical website, not a support group, pressure group or charity and from 2013 so before 'the trend') of why the science of sex and gender is far more complicated and up for discussion than people want it to be: sciencebasedmedicine.org/sex-gender-and-sexuality-its-complicated/

The other fallacy is this focus on an idea of science 'truth' or obviousness. Science does not always deal in absolutes

Science does not always deal in absolutes, but regarding the shape of Planet Earth and the dimorphic nature of mammalian gamete it bloody well does. Neither endorinology, nor psychology nor gender studies have ever disputed either.

The other fallacy is this focus on an idea of science 'truth' or obviousness. Science does not always deal in absolutes- blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/what-it-means-when-scientists-disagree/

The science of transgender/gender/sex involves many different disciplines, some of which are more liable to dispute than others- consider the difference betwern psychology and endocrinology, for example.

There are a couple of really excellent comments under the article - you can tell the A grade students who apply critical thinking!

Not read whole thread yet, but what on earth are the images for the gender neutral toilets in the Edinburgh University pronoun piece linked above?

There is one looking like he is wearing pantaloons, and one looking like she is wearing a crinoline from Victorian times. Am I missing something? In what way is that denoting gender neutral? Unless both symbols are on the same door? But what is with the dress?

I firmly held on to all sorts of ludicrous nonsense beliefs until I was at least about 40 .

I stumbled across this article online from a PhD student recently and had the same concern as OP, whether people will grow out of this type of thinking and wouldn’t be great if some people could use some of that thoughtful kindness to think and question a bit more. 🤔 I mean, why might someone with a bit more life experience, have turned out a rad fem...?

But the full realisation of sexism can be very terrifying when you are young, female and you know that you can’t escape your own body (still is, even when you are a gimmer!) and I am not surprised that many young people want to believe they are not living in that world.

Also, apparently that type of more thoughtful introspective work would be wasting precious time and resources which they should really be using for the benefit of men

discoversociety.org/2018/04/03/viewpoint-understanding-anti-transgender-feminism/

Think back to your university days, how much of the beliefs that you had then do you still hold now? I'd guess not many, university is a time for trying out and questioning different beliefs.

PleasingFungusBeetle I agree. If the election of Trump and Brexit have shown us anything it's that a lot of people have opinions that aren't on the woke radar. They also never to seem to engage with the vast majority of men who like most women I think don't believe a word of any of the trans activist stuff and gender ideology where we pick our pronouns.