Gender neutral toilets at Bournemouth Uni **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

Just back from my walk, and saw this headline on the Irish Sunday Indepentent
www.pressreader.com/ireland/sunday-independent-ireland/20181007/281479277363653

When I googled it, this was right underneath
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/female-us-navy-sailors-secretly-filmed-in-submarine-showers-9905483.html

The American link says "The report also claims that the recordings took place in the boat's unisex bathrooms."

Women aren't safe from being perved at anywhere and reducing the safeguards will just make it worse.

We went to a University open day to somewhere with gender neutral loos.
I found the one I used quite intimidating,it was a big space with multiple little corridors,not well lit,and not particularly busy - I realise I've been conditioned my whole life to avoid large semi enclosed spaces where men with ill intent could be lurking - deserted car park, stairwells,lifts,train carriages - this was just like that and I'm not usually particularly bothered.
And that is nothing at all to do with trans people, it's to do with sharing a large semi deserted space with strange men.

Adding a few unisex loos is good, but any institution which is thinking of making them the default or only option should do a very serious Chesterton's Fence analysis.
If you don't understand why women's loos exist then you have absolutely no business removing them. If you do properly understand why they exist you might possibly be able to design workable unisex facilities.

And quite frankly, she wasn't attacked was she. The way some folks go on it's like every trans person wishes to assault them. Ffs.

Where did I say he was trans? He was male. That is my problem. Males in spaces that had previously been afforded to women as single-sex ones.

Nope, not had any of those things happen to me from men either.

Haven't you, Will? Oh well.

I have, as have pretty much all of the women I know. Starting from the age of about twelve in my case, as soon as I got breasts. It's been a regular occurrence throughout my life. Pretty sure I didn't imagine it, especially the being wanked at stuff, that was delightful.

Not one incident was from a woman.

Seems to be a theme there somewhere, but for the life of me I can't think what it might be.

Women's loos were first brought in because women were excluded from much of life by not being able to go out for more than a few hours at a time

Unisex loos will mean that Muslim women & girls - and some of other faiths - will be excluded from those institutions that have them

That is institutional racism

In developing countries like India, they are building more women's loos, to try to reduce the horrific rates of rape

Women need single sex spaces because it is not safe to let in the sex which commits the rapes and 98% of he sexual assaults
With single sex spaces, the women there can tell any men to leave;
just as important, anyone outside those spaces, anyone responsible for administering the spaces can stop men enteing the loos in the first place.

When it is an offence for any man to go into women's loos and when the police can be called for this,
it makes a difference
to when the woman has to prove she is not being transphobic in wanting a particular man removed

Who said he was trans? I never said that - I said if a man walked into a ladies loo you could challenge him.

Women need their own space. If loos are unisex then anyone can walk in.

If he tried to walk into a ladies loo one, that would have been a warning bell to start with two, you could tell him to leave
three, you could scream blue murder and call security

You can still scream blue murder and call security. And what good is telling someone about to attack you to leave. What do you think they are going to say, sure thing, my bad and go?

The point is if a man wishes to attack you in a quiet area, the fact rhe loos are single sex won't stop that. I'm shocked anyone would think it would.

And quite frankly, she wasn't attacked was she. The way some folks go on it's like every trans person wishes to assault them. Ffs.

Well d'uh - it's a door.

If he tried to walk into a ladies loo
one, that would have been a warning bell to start with
two, you could tell him to leave
three, you could scream blue murder and call security.

I have been in the unisex toilets in a quiet art gallery when it was just me and a man. It would have been extremely easy for him to push me into a cubicle and assault me, had he so desired

He could have done that anyway. As you could have him. The sign on the loo door doesn't change that.

The NUS has guidance on this to help students argue for gender neutral toilets: www.nusconnect.org.uk/resources/gender-neutral-toilets-guide

They do also say: “Some people may feel uncomfortable using gender-neutral toilets, and as such there should always be both gendered and gender-neutral toilets available. If there are only one set of toilets in the building, you could use the accessible toilet model – designating all disabled toilets gender-neutral and for everyone.”

Most unis are aware of their broader target market and so I can't see them getting rid of single-sexed toilets altogether. I hate unisex toilets and have never struggled to find single-sex toilets in universities.

A week or two ago a report was published saying two-thirds of women had experienced some form of harassment or abuse. I think this is somewhat conservative.

I’m happy for you Will that you’ve never had any of these things happen to you. I consider you to be lucky.

Uni open day yesterday. Pleased to see single sex although who knows how long it'll last. Not naming for fear of a shaming. (Of the relevant Uni).

Nope, not had any of those things happen to me from men either.

I guess that things like unisex / gender neutral toilets all stem from the drive towards equality, for everyone, including men, that not only extends from equal access to jobs, services and facilities, but to unprejudiced attitudes as well.

It's funny how it's OK to say we don't want men in our toilets, because there's a perception that they're more likely to be creepy, but it would be completely unacceptable to say the same about someone because of their skin colour, regardless of whether there is any evidence or not....

The solution is to design the toilets better, not to discriminate against a particular group of society.

My friend was propositioned by a woman in the ladies loos of a gay nightclub. She said 'no thank you I'm not gay' and she bought her (the friend) a drink.

I’ve never had a Female corner me as a child, touch my arse, grab my tit, show me their genitals on the street, comment on my body as I pass them by, touch themselves on a bus in front of me... so Will, I’m guessing creepy females? Not so much.

Will - ever been groped, pinched or raped by a woman? Had lewd and aggressive 'suggestions'? Been stared and stated at and completely scared? Been catcalled and proposioned when in your school uniform?

No I thought not.

They are mixed sex toilets and should be sign posted that way.

I suspect women will silently and automatically change their behaviour accordingly to avoid them so it will never actually be a ‘problem’. After all, haven’t we had a lifetime of walking a different route, crossing to the other side of the road, avoiding places where men are as they might embarrass, humiliate or attack us? Or we just don’t want to sit in the piss of some lazy fucker who can’t be arsed to lift the seat.

It automatically excludes women, none more so than women who need single sex spaces for personal/religious reasons.

I have been in the unisex toilets in a quiet art gallery when it was just me and a man. It would have been extremely easy for him to push me into a cubicle and assault me, had he so desired.

Misandry alert....

I suppose there are no "creepy" females in the world?

The thing is - this isn't just accommodating transsexuals - it's sharing a space anyone at all whether they 'identify as man/woman/horse'.

Imagine being in a quiet train station or club and being bothered by a creepy guy. What if you can't leave but need to get the hell away - you go to the ladies loo and speak to other women (hopefully it's not empty). So if the loos are unisex, Creepy McHands-on can follow you in. Fantastic. All to appease a teensy minority of very vocal and aggressive activists.