Gender neutral toilets at Bournemouth Uni **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

I vote for Weetabix.

There are places where just walking past the men's bogs is unpleasant because they reek so badly. There's a restaurant near me that has signage telling men to "stand closer - it's shorter than you think".

It was a good thing I wasn't in the middle of drinking anything first time I spotted that!

Just ignore that and just pick on my post.

That's because you did the NAMALT. That's how it works.

Are you hoping for another forty pages of circularity? Or shall I just move straight to WEETABIX?

Christ. NAMALT now extends to toilet seats FFS.

Whatever. That was 2 other posters on this thread that made it their main argument against unisex toilets, not me. Their argument against men using the same toilets as women were that that they pee on the seats, not safety concerns or anything else, but that they piss on the seats.

But whatever. Just ignore that and just pick on my post.

every pub in my hometown has it on the back of each door

Gosh. Never seen one. How surprising they're so popular in your town.

My point is that women, as well as men, wee on the seat and don't clear it up or leave the cubicles in a mess.

Christ. NAMALT now extends to toilet seats FFS.

LangCleg

Ok, not in your experience but every pub in my hometown has it on the back of each door.

My point is that women, as well as men, wee on the seat and don't clear it up or leave the cubicles in a mess.

That isn't a valid argument against unisex or gender neutral toilets.

a lot of ladies loos have that twee poem about being a sweetie and wiping the seatie

No they don't.

Gender is a protected characteristic

No it isn't.

They’re vile because they’re filthy I mean. Piss everywhere. I don’t think it’s women’s piss, let’s put it that way!

Unisex toilets have been around for as long as I can remember. By unisex I mean one toilet cubicle with self contained sink etc but available for everyone to use. At the hospital I attend most of the toilets (and there are lots) are unisex and accessible. I have never found them filthy with piss everywhere.

I have been in women's toilets and found used sanitary towels and tampons on the floor, on top of the bins etc. At work we are constantly getting memos to leave the ladies toilets in a better state - they are disgusting.

I understand concerns about men going into the more traditional toilets ie a room with several cubicles because women feel unsafe, but really why complain about "piss on the seats"? That is not only men (a lot of ladies loos have that twee poem about being a sweetie and wiping the seatie!)

This silly argument just trivialises what is a concern for lots of people.

Oh FFS WillChellam, men belong to the sex class (male) that habitually assaults those that belong to the other sex class (female). Even a cursory look at the stats will show you that males are the ones who assault women, not the other way round. Yes, that happens very occasionally, but so infrequently we really don't need to bother about it.

Why do you think we have historically separated people with male bodies from those with female bodies when the latter are vulnerable in some way, like using toilets, getting (semi) naked or sleeping? It's an acknowledgement of that fact. We are getting very bored with having to point out to numpties that yes, we know it's not all men .... blah blah blah. Did you hear about young school girls' experiences of being catcalled by grown men yesterday? This stuff is central, sadly, to many females lives and IT IS MEN WHO DO IT.

As for you trotting out the ludicrous comparison with racism, that is so not the case. The thing here is that the male body is the threat. Nobody rapes with the colour of their skin. They rape with a penis, no matter what its colour. You also seem to be equating being burgled with being sexually assaulted. You really think that?

I meant to add, there is no evidence from the original post that the female/women's/XX toilets are being replaced completely, if they are being split up - fine, provided the same thing happens to the men's toilets as well...

Back to one of my original points, equality means that either every individual subgroup (and Lord knows there are dozens and dozens now) needs to have their own equally apportioned facilities, or, the facilities must be a single facility shared by everyone.

If you have male, female and gender neutral toilets, you can bet its only a matter of time before there are demands for specific trans-male, trans-female, cis-male, cis-female, and a toilet with a cis-male in and a trans female out door just in-case your gender fluidity kicks in whilst you're taking a piss.

I think you’re missing the point Will. Spectacularly.

You're missing my point.

Gender is a protected characteristic, like race, age sexuality.

Imagine if I said I didn't want blacks in the men's toilets because both times I've been burgled the perpetrator was coloured... It would be unacceptable. That's how I feel when I see comments about being suspicious of all men, because some men are bad.

I was recently in a UCL building with gender neutral toilets. It was like a traditional public loo with a door from the corridor leading into a long space with a row of individual cubicles. The toilets were (I think) the only ones on that floor of the building but they and the corridor were very quiet. I was happy at first that the cubicles were fully enclosed floor-to-ceiling with sinks inside.

However, the space between the long wall and row of cubicle doors was really narrow. One time I was coming out of a cubicle in the middle of the row, I had to squeeze by a man who was trying to get past me to a free cubicle at the end. Even though he as an individual was unthreatening, the situation was unpleasant and set my alarm bells ringing. I realised how easily I could be trapped at the end of the long room and pushed into an empty cubicle. What's more, the floor-to-ceiling sealed off cubicles would mean blocked so much sound that no one on the corridor would hear me if I screamed. I actually avoided visiting the toilets in that building again for the rest of the time I was there as I just didn't feel safe.

Maybe the women students just need to start deficating into doggy poo bags and leaving it in the diversity officer's inbox?

PrincessScarlett The fact that women's toilets (or individual cubicles) are not 100% safe already, is exactly the reason that we shouldn't make is any easier for men to abuse us.

One of the most obvious red flags a woman can see is if a man looks like he is about to follow her into the women's toilets.

If I see that (and I have) I definitely don't go in. It is a simple as that. You stay where there are other people and get away from him.

If you see a man hanging around the women's toilets you might well report him and/or let other women know what you have seen. You will likely remember his face - if he is dodgy then this could help with catching/ convicting him. Most offenders do not especially want to get caught.

With self ID none of that will be possible, because the bloke might identify as woman, and he will be the one screaming blue murder if he feels his rights have been infringed.

Additional mixed individual toilet cubicles are fine, wholesale conversion of women's blocks to unisex is not.

Many universities have gender neutral toilets now. The ones at UEA I used consisted of a very open communal space for hand washing (no door from the Hive area) and separate enclosed cubicles for doing your business. It was clean, very well lit and I felt safe.

The story about the man filming in the UEA toilets would have happened in single sex toilets as he could have still sneaked in filming equipment so gender neutral toilets were not solely to blame for this man's actions.

They’re vile because they’re filthy I mean. Piss everywhere. I don’t think it’s women’s piss, let’s put it that way!

It’s at Manchester uni too. They’re vile. I hate having to use them.

Michael Conroy has an on-point recent thread about lavatory facilities (some fine discussion in the thread):

This is where we are and it's a disgrace. A young woman DM'd me to share this. I'm livid & sad and don't understand how we've got to this depth of sexist stupidity. We should all be livid.

twitter.com/MichaelConroy68/status/1043531943520944128

The risks of gender neutral toilets, showers and changing rooms are evidenced here
www.edp24.co.uknews/man-who-secretly-filmed-female-students-in-toilets-at-university-of-east-anglia-in-norwich-to-be-sentenced-today-1-4790075?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social_Icon&utm_campaign=in_article_social_icons

Ask the women what they would think and do today if they saw a man follow their daughter into the women's toilets say at a shopping centre or cinema.

Would they a) be entirely cool with it? b) follow him in to make sure nothing happened? or c) challenge him?

I don't believe for a minute they would do a unless they are neglectful or stupid generally.

And if they would do b or c today, why would it then have to be ok tommorrow if self iD came in overnight?