US swimming authorities to let athletes choose to compete as male or female

I don't understand the processes by which this keeps happening. EVERYONE involved must know that this is unfair and unreasonable and makes no sense. I presume each individual person involved is afraid to make waves, or simply doesn't care about women and girls in their sport, or is cowed by some very vocal transactivist in their vicinity.

But still! there must be committees that sit down and discuss these policies. There must be meetings where the issues are raised and worked out. The people involved aren't all deluded TRAs - one presumes that some decision makers at USA Swimming understand physiology and sports science. Is no one at any of these meetings saying "this is logically going to end up in with us having one men's category and one less talented men's category?" Do they just not care?

Are they just hoping that if they go along with it, the absurdity will come to a head more quickly? I could see that reasoning. I might do the same myself if backed into a corner. But how do TRAs have the power to make sports governing bodies that scared?

But also this bit:

'USA Swimming’s policy towards transgender athletes is unique: unlike many sports governing bodies, it does not require conversion surgery to allow athletes to change their stated gender. Rather, swimmers can request gender choice without medical treatment.'

So fully intact and testosterone filled males can compete in the women's races it would seem. how very fair and inclusive it all is.

Posie Parker's (paraphrased) rant springs to mind ' by being inclusive of everyone, you are excluding women and girls'

Thanks Errol - just what I was looking for!

"Furthermore, R-1 allows athletes to swim in their chosen category after a protest has been filed until the protest is heard by the National Eligibility Appeal Panel (a rule applying to all athletes under such protests)."

This bit is interesting - so what are the grounds for a protest, and under what circumstances would it be upheld, and how long would the process take (e.g., two years, by the end of which the promising young female swimmer bumped off, say, the state squad, may have missed her chance of selection for the national team or sports scholarships at university)?

Also interesting they illustrate it with a photo of a transman (mastectomy scars and all) - yes, we know that transmen aren't going to threaten fair competition in men's sport! It's women's sport we're worried about.

This do?

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/usa-swimming-passes-amendment-increasing-inclusion-for-transgender-athletes/

Just a quick word of caution - the link in OP is to RT (formerly known as Russia Today) who have form for flat out lying in order to stir trouble over what they perceive to be hot button topics in the West. (See, for example, the non-existent siege of Incirlik airbase they reported after the failed Turkish coup attempt a couple of years ago.)

I would take this with a pinch of salt - the actual guidelines may be more nuanced (then again they may not be -Andraya Yarwood, anyone?) I'd like to see this from a reputable mainstream US news site.

Can you imagine the reception that a male infiltrating a female team is going to receive when competing? Brave? Stunning? I don't think so. Sadly for girls and women, it is going to this bonkers sort of thing to happen for the message to sink in.

I'd take cover for fear of being shat on by a flying pig tbh
All my laughs today coming from Errol
Thanks. We need it. If this comes in my first act on retirement will be to get that little boy status in writing and a shiny new birth certificate to prove it. Will they make me go to school I wonder?

Poor transboys. There are a lot more of them. Swimming is a good sport for those who are not very socially assured, as it is individual and the repetitiveness of the training is calming. Plus a chance to socialise with others from different schools in the changing room and at galas. It can then be a real escape from the shopping mall/party pressure of the cool group at school. Training is so demanding that you just don't have time to worry about whether you are invited or not. on the other hand swimmers will know other swimmers in different school year groups, as they are the ones who head to the library at lunchtime to do homework, because their evenings are taken up with training.

So a good thing for girls who are unsure of their gender/sexuality, as long as they can compete against those with similar bodies.

(FWIW DD did a lot of sport because she is dyslexic, and at around 10/11 it became very important that she had something she was good at. I remember at least a couple of boys, not unlike Michael Phelps, whose parents encouraged them to swim because they were hyperactive.)

Well here we are, my absolute benchmark for fucking ridiculous. Everything else has been gradually raising my blood pressure but as the mother of a competitive female swimmer, this has been the one I've been expecting and dreading for a while.

From the age of 8 the qualifying times for county swimming has been faster for boys than girls. I have a friend whose child transitioned at 7. I always said I supported her right to live as a girl but she should never be able to swim competitively against my daughter (she wouldn't, she's not sporty, but it was the example I gave).

Even if they take hormone blockers in their teens, they have already had several years advantage at the outset of their swimming career, which will drive girls out of the sport.

I genuinely hoped that this was so obviously wrong (the qualification times alone make it so fucking obvious what the problem is), that it wouldn't happen. What an idiot.

If a USA trans person qualifies for their Olympic team what happens then? Which category do they enter?

Afaik a male trans athlete would have to get his testosterone below the defined limit (ie about 4 times higher than female levels, as decreed by an IOC committee consisting of 3 XX people and 9 XY people , iirc, someone correct me if I'm wrong). He'd then qualify and enter in the women's competition.

If a female trans athlete qualifies for a USA Olympic team (other than equestrian which isn't sex segregated because the rider provides the brain and the horse provides the body, more or less) ... I'd take cover for fear of being shat on by a flying pig tbh.

This is the main area my DD concedes at the moment in relation to TWAW, so hopefully it will peak a few more people (whilst it being shit for the girls involved )

Bonkers

assuring a fair competitive environment.

Say what?? There's a reason men and women don't compete in the same races now. Just because a man says he feels like a woman changes nothing - and even if his testosterone levels are low enough to compete - he still has the same body, muscles, bigger heart and competitive advantage.

The world is going nuts. Can nobody use their brain and actually think critically about this?

How does this work in international competitions like the Olympics though? If a USA trans person qualifies for their Olympic team what happens then? Which category do they enter?

Errol

I expect the hormones shrink their feet. A couple of lady hormone tablets would probably have got Ian Thorpe into a nice pair of size 5 court shoes from Clarks.

I'm going to spend my old age being the little boy who points and laughs.

Ironically, you can of course be exactly that if you wish.

It outlines the rights of transgender athletes, and states that swimmers can choose male or female gender identity “to support a sport culture of inclusion and diversity, while assuring a fair competitive environment.”

How exactly does this move assure a 'fair competitive environment' for girls?

Silly me. It means an inclusive, diverse, fair competitive environment for males. That's the only possible meaning. Fan bloody tastic.

If you don't cry you have to laugh ... what will they be wearing? I'm going to spend my old age being the little boy who points and laughs.

“to support a sport culture of inclusion and diversity, while assuring a fair competitive environment.”

OMG. How can anyone suck their cheeks in and talk about a fair competitive environment? How the hell have so many people lost all power of critical thinking?
What will it take to dismantle this? I read stuff like this and such a red mist descends I lose the power of speech.

Huge difference

We have mixed changing rooms anyway though with individual cubicles and lockers. But competin g there's obvious differences...

My girls are just in the process of joining a swim team. Obvious differences. This makes me so sad.

Indeed. Swimming's not a sport where physical build as a result of being male makes any difference at all, is it...?