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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mathew Parris: Maybe Treatment of Trans People is Our Generation’s Blindspot

64 replies

Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 07:36

Interesting column. Also includes this paragraph:

On the facts and the rationalities I’m with my brave Times colleague Janice Turner, whose journalism I much respect. I don’t think women can have penises; don’t think anybody in any field is free to categorise themselves without reference to how others would describe them; I do think women who want “women-only” places have a right for their fears to be heard; and I do think that, changing gender being so important a step and so hard to reverse, we should give deep thought to how fast and how early in life a person should do this.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/prejudice-will-never-be-a-thing-of-the-past-qbft3z07f

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VickyEadie · 08/10/2018 19:13

here's an obvious response to that...

Ooh, is it 'dress like VickieEadie and countless other women, who rarely if ever feel the need to wear stereotypical 'women's' clothing, make-up, nail polish or shoes' and then you can use the men's bogs as you did for your whole life?

WanderinWomb · 08/10/2018 18:07

What a pile of piffle Mr Parris.

He admits to being so lacking empathy (because he is white) that he missed the institutional racism all around him, he noticed homophobia because that's re him, himself. Me me, me, me. What affects Matthew matters.

He now says he understands as he has been educated on racism and the struggles of trans people.
This is classic Stonewall training graduate talk. Question not transgenderism or be like a racist homophobe. We've seen this a million times, this article is just written with a gentler voice.

He seems to have not developed any empathy for women though. Janice Turner is allowed to speak apparently. It would do him good to actually listen..

Starkstaring · 06/10/2018 12:56

It needs to be acknowledged that it takes an awful lot of strength and resilience to go against gender stereotypes.

When was the last time you saw a GNC woman on mainstream media, without it being for that reason. I never have.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 06/10/2018 12:51

The whole basis of the feminist objection to transactivism is that the aim of genderist ideology is to force us all back into our gender cages and weld the doors shut.

vaginafetishist · 06/10/2018 11:46

FlowerpotFairyHouse I thought you were railing against Drs Harrop and Webberley!

FlowerpotFairyHouse · 06/10/2018 11:18

There's an obvious response to that...

Isn't there just.

pennydrew · 06/10/2018 11:16

Wave777 I thought the same thing.

YES women do know what it’s like to be caged by gender ffs.

ONLY women know what it’s like being controlled and oppressed because of our BIOLOGY. We’re walking wombs don’t you know

ErrolTheDragon · 06/10/2018 11:08

'Cartimunda' has of course turned up...
'Trans people are actively attacked/beaten/ murdered for being trans. They don't have to have a "feeling " about it.
Sending a trans person into a mens loo dressed as a female is sending them into harms way.'

There's an obvious response to that...

scepticalwoman · 06/10/2018 10:59

The comments are loading - very slowly so they're evidently being well monitored.

happydappy2 · 06/10/2018 10:56

Another times article where comments are taking far too long to load.

FlowerpotFairyHouse · 06/10/2018 10:48

My autocorrect doesn't like FFS.

FlowerpotFairyHouse · 06/10/2018 10:47

Do the rest of us have any idea of the invisible cage that gender makes around us all?

I can see others have picked up on this but I feel it needs recognising again.

YES, Matthew. Every single woman knows EXACTLY what it feels like.

DRS!

Needmoresleep · 06/10/2018 10:30

It is a very male-centric view and he forgets to mention that women in the FCO in the 80's also had a very tough time.

PierreBezukov · 06/10/2018 10:24

Matthew Parris can be quite wishy washy and (if it's not a contradiction) authoritarian in his instincts - look at his Brexit stance.

I remember reading in his autobiography how he stood by while a female friend was raped. He felt terrible about it but didn't quite seem to have the courage then, or now.

nicenewdusters · 06/10/2018 10:16

I think he's just hedging his bets so history won't judge him.

His lack of self awareness about being trapped in the gender cage is just perfect. He couldn't feel the racist undertones that his colleague would have, just as he can't feel how a natal born woman feels when a man self identifies as a woman and expects her to move over.

I have some experience of civil service fast streamers. Very academic and confident, but socially rounded and outward looking - not so much.

arranfan · 06/10/2018 10:07

Yes - MP is missing the point.

Those racist Civil Servants had to distort reality to justify their phobia.

TRAs and their woke allies are demanding that women should accept the distorted reality of others and to cede our civil rights and legal right to exist. We are on the other end of that - call if misogyny, call it coercive control on a societal scale.

As ever, Matthew P would have benefited from reading or chatting to Jane Clare Jones on these matters. E.g., GAY RIGHTS AND TRANS RIGHTS – A COMPARE AND CONTRAST

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

arranfan · 06/10/2018 10:02

If Robin Chatterjie had moaned about racial prejudice (he never breathed a word on the subject) I’d have said he was imagining it, making a fuss about nothing.

In a nutshell, emotionally and cognitively, politically, there is Matthew P again, doing the same to women while not savouring the irony.

arranfan · 06/10/2018 09:55

If only even Elizabeth Barrett-Browning had written a verse novel, maybe called it Aurora Leigh and in Book 1 included this description of what happens to a young girl in society, hampered by social expectations:

A wild bird scarcely fledged, was brought to her cage, And she was there to meet me. Very kind. Bring the clean water, give out the fresh seed.

heresyandwitchcraft · 06/10/2018 09:46

It will be a blindspot. Because the people the trans activists and their allies are blind to, and actively ignoring, shutting down, persecuting, and demonizing are:
-lesbians
-mothers
-feminists
-transsexuals
-ordinary women
-some gay men
-people who dares to defend the facts of basic biology, or look into this subject properly
I think anyone with common sense will go, well hey, those are actually generally caring groups of people with expertise in gender, non-conforming, tackling prejudice, acceptance of others, being a woman, and caring for children. Why aren't they being acknowledged as legitimate stakeholders in this?
As a man, you can have no understanding of what it means to actually be born a female.
The whole point is that neither can any male, including those who call themselves women.
Why in the hell would lesbians and radical feminists suddenly decide to become "hateful bigots"? The answer is they are not. They just think the cotton ceiling is a bunch of rapey bullshit, that straight men can't call themselves lesbians and demand sex, that women should not have to compete with men in sports, that men shouldn't be in women's prisons or refuges, that men do not have the right to speak "on behalf of women," that men cannot dictate women's boundaries, and men are not the arbiter of the definition of woman. Women have a right to self-determination, to assemble freely, to exclude men from certain spaces, and to freedom of speech.
Biology still matters, and always will, no matter what the claims are to the contrary. Magically, in this debate, trans activists still seem to know who the actual female-born women are in order to burn them at the stake for their heresy.
A declaration of a feminine gender identity does not change these basic principles, and in many situations can be seen as an actual affront (Pips Bunce the "part time woman" comes to mind). These individuals are born as males, grow up as men, and later say they identify as women. Caitlyn Jenner does not know what it's like to be female-born, whether as an athlete or carrying a child as a mother.
Stop speaking as though sexism is not the most important part to consider in all of this. I think widespread misogyny is the only reason this ideology hasn't been shut down for the farce it is, because men just don't seem to care or acknowledge that lesbians don't do dick and should not be coerced to consider men as sexual partners, no matter how they identify inside. It's all starting to make me think that perhaps men think women actually are just a feeling in your head, an extension of men, that men can become women just by donning a dress or high heels. Maybe men really don't think women actually exist, that women don't have a right to penis-free facilities, or that women don't face sexism.
Matthew Parris sure seems to be struggling with these ideas.

NoSquirrels · 06/10/2018 09:41

I do think women who want “women-only” places have a right for their fears to be heard;

We have a right for our fears to be heard. But maybe not the right to enforce the boundaries of our sex-based protections?

Listen to the women, sure - but they might be on the wrong side of history so, you know, be nice...

Nicknamesalltaken · 06/10/2018 09:28

I don’t like ‘trans’ being liked to race or sexuality. I don’t know what his definition of ‘trans’ is and I think that’s hugely important here.

It all read a bit ‘be nice’ and ‘be careful you don’t end up on the wrong side of history’ to me.

LangCleg · 06/10/2018 09:26

I think it’s a bit crap to be honest. Asks if we can really understand the cage of gender. Yes, Matthew, you total arse, all women can. Drips with mansplaining and fails to see the massive elephant in the transroom of how fucking sexist the whole thing is.

Yes. He conceptualises the whole thing as transgressing gender when actually it's the reification of gender.

On the upside - he does seem to recognise practicalities involved.

AngryAttackKittens · 06/10/2018 09:20

Do the rest of us have any idea of the invisible cage that gender makes around us all, and the tremendous difficulty and pain of breaking it?

Do women realize that gender is a cage, and how hard that cage is to break? Oh, I don't know, you could maybe take a look at the entire history of feminism for an answer that covers the last hundred plus years, and a great deal of women's writing going all the way back to antiquity for further evidence.

FlowersAndHerts · 06/10/2018 09:16

Busy saying nothing, arse covering article.
Totally agree with this. It was heartening to see the paragraph highlighted in the OP, but he goes on to talk about the rage that many trans people feel, as if that explains the action that's being taken to silence people who question self ID. Needless to say, all comments on the article are still pending!

speakingwoman · 06/10/2018 09:14

Gender s indeed a cafe.:)
Off to spread more jam.