Gender rather than sex on medical form

Update

I've had a reply, which to be honest I wasn't expecting.

At this stage it is just a 'thanks for your comments, I will look into it and get back to you with more details' reply but at least I've had an acknowledgement of my concerns, which I didn't last year!

Other half works in a Life Sciences department of a very woke university, one of the questions on a department form asked “Gender: Male or Female”

I cross it out where I can and god help them if it’s online and they have a ‘free text’ box for you to fill out your own thoughts on the subject.

Dealt with the flu form this morning. Crossed gender out and wrote sex. I do this every time.

lisah987

I put that in my email to the nhs trust that deals with our school imms. I also then said that the World Health Organisation have them defined differently!

WHO definitions are

Gender

Refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed. The concept of gender includes five important elements: relational, hierarchical, historical, contextual and institutional. While most people are born either male or female, they are taught appropriate norms and behaviours – including how they should interact with others of the same or opposite sex within households, communities and work places. When individuals or groups do not “fit” established gender norms they often face stigma, discriminatory practices or social exclusion – all of which adversely affect health.

Sex

The different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones etc

AFAIK until v recently people used the words 'sex' and 'gender' interchangeably. I still have to think hard when people try to distinguish them.

I was asked gender; male, female, or other ffs on an electronic form recently

Vapogender?

I can't understand how vapogender could make the BBC list but not vapidgender, the extra special gender for people who are very dull and uninspiring and desperate to make themselves seem a bit more interesting?

I crossed it out and corrected it, too - thanks to Mumsnet.

It's so frustrating! I'll give them until the middle of next week to reply, then perhaps ring again to ask for follow up.

Will update as and when

Our area uses electronic forms and is asking for gender as well. I emailed them and told them the terms weren't synonymous and that surely sex is more medically relevant. No response as yet.

Crossing out boy girl and writing vapogender or whatever shows up how ridiculous it is though.

Not that I'd probably do it.

But still. Ridiculous.

Grambler you may be able to find a number to ring in their literature.

I tried to be very factual and reasonable with my questions and gave reasons why I felt that they were wrong to ask for gender rather than sex. I doubt I'll get a reply, but I'll keep going with it for the next few months.

I cross gender out on every form and write sex.
The kids moan at me on school forms 😂

Or “vapogender” - gender identifying as or having the qualities of smoke, which I found on the BBC’s list of 100 genders.

Thanks for pursuing this.

The form didn't ask for a written answer to gender, there were tick boxes against boy and girl.

I did the same as last year. I crossed out the word gender, replaced it with sex and then crossed out boy, replaced it with male and ticked the box.

Mildly satisfying, but I really would like a proper answer as to why the form doesn't just ask for the sex of the recipient!

If it asks for gender you could put genderfuck which I believe is a gender on the list.

I despaired at this - and Surrey have gone online for their immunisation consent forms so you can't even cross it out!

When I rang, the person I spoke to said she could see where I was coming from, but that they were just following guidelines.

I despair.

The saga continues this year (this is OP)

Same issue on form, same phonecalls. This time I have been given a name and have emailed for their attention. Once again I have stated that surely biological sex rather than gender identity is what is needed on this medical consent form in case of potential reporting of adverse reactions.

Added that given that there are now primary aged children questioning their gender, if my female child identifies as a boy, which box should I tick?

Then hammered the point home by adding in the WHO definitions of:

Gender (Refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men)

and

Sex (The different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females, such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones, etc.)

I'm still not holding my breath for a reply, though, but did ask if the person I emailed would supply me with the contact details of the correct person if it wasn't her.

from current thread: "We’re Still Here Conference 8th September: A report from the inside OP TheHarpySings* wrote:
Okay. So here’s my notes

1) Health Panel:
Chair was Dr Ben Vincent of GIRES.

Part of the discussion on this panel was around GPs reluctance to prescribe “bridging hormones”. GPs are reluctant/afraid to prescribe them for liability reasons. Apparently a brand of T-Gel was withdrawn and GPs are reluctant to switch brands.

There was then a bit of chatter about whether a person’s sex was relevant for healthcare stats.

Then there was discussion about trans children. Dr Vincent was very scathing about GIDS-said there was disgusting and unethical practices. BV spoke about dispelling the myths about desistance and the myths of ROGD- BV called this “concern trolling, malicious and ethically bankrupt”. BV would like a review of the whole system.

Then Dr Vincent said that they’d received a review copy of “Born in your own body” edited by Heather Brunskell-Evans and Michele Moore. BV is reviewing it for some Royal College and said “I will tear it a new arsehole”
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

Dr Ben Vincent describes influence on BMJ, GPs, NHS etc:
6/7/17
"I’m really delighted that a team (of which I was a member) comprised entirely of trans voices has been published in the BMJ (the British Medical Journal). Our article provides basic information for GPs providing healthcare to transgender people."
genderben.com/2017/07/06/i-am-your-trans-patient/

BMJ article: 'I am your trans patient'
BMJ 2017; 357 doi: doi.org/10.1136/bmj.j2963 (Published 30 June 2017) Emma-Ben Lewis, clinical teaching associate, Ben Vincent, medical sociologist, Alex Brett, Sarah Gibson, Reubs J Walsh, developmental neuropsychologist:
(extract)
"Thinking outside the “M/F” tickbox
You’ll need to think outside the tick-box about what’s relevant for my body: is a smear test really necessary for all women (and only women)? Or is it for everyone with a cervix? The same goes for prostate and breast screening, and for any aspect of medicine where there’s a distinction between how you’d treat a “male” and how you’d treat a “female.” Those categories have never been the whole story—trans and intersex people have always been here—but the medical literature often oversimplifies, to our detriment. Knowing that I’m trans doesn’t tell you anything about my primary and secondary sexual characteristics; but then neither does knowing—or assuming—that I’m not. If you need to ask, check whether I prefer to talk about my body in a particular way to minimise discomfort—I might want to avoid certain words, for example. Although I might be comfortable talking about my breasts, or going to get a routine prostate screening, it’s also possible that I might want you to talk about my “chest” instead, or help me find ways to engage with the men’s health unit that won’t cause me tremendous distress." (continues)

"Footnotes
Competing interests: We have read and understood BMJ policy on declaration of interests and declare the following: none."

www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2963

Background to the NHS use of sex/gender.

Important thread OP Barracker wrote:

" medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

They were ALWAYS based upon 'gender'.
The evidence is in NHS documents from 2010.
And the Department of Health were told, by the NHS team, not to tell people wards were segregated by sex, because they knew the policy was based on gender.

But the DOH purposefully used the word sex to the public instead.

We've been deliberately misled."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396859-Weve-been-lied-to-about-Single-SEX-wards-since-2010

Go for it, it would be interesting to see his response. But I would expect with his background he is very much aligned with TA rather than GC - as he's so senior might explain the prevailing ethos in some parts of the NHS? Just my own musings...

ScienceRoar - I agree totally! I'm sure it's been covered elsewhere, but in all seriousness do people use "gender" because it's more polite than saying "sex"? I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case.

I blame Austin Powers.
Sex? 'Yes please'