Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Can we talk about moral purity?

57 replies

howonearthdidwegethere · 30/09/2018 11:04

I see this come up a lot on this board and want to offer up a couple of examples from my experience that bolster the case for working with a range of voices on a single issue. (I'd welcome counter examples, as I genuinely want to unpick this for my own sanity!)

Example #1: Named Person law
In Scotland, the SNP Govt passed a law (supported by all the opposition parties bar the Tories) that would have assigned every child in Scotland a state guardian. Please Google for more details if you're interested.

A groundswell of grassroots opposition rose up to challenge this law and it was largely fronted and resourced by a Christian group (forget the name of the organisation). They set up a campaign group (No2NP) and were joined by a children's law centre and a former senior social worker but the Christian group were the driving force.

I could see this law was an affront to civil liberties and yet Liberty were nowhere to be seen (waves at Shami). My most generous interpretation is that Liberty has no real presence in Scotland so weren't up on it all. Nonetheless, no human/civil rights groups spoke up.

Anyway, lots of my left-leaning, liberal mates tried to warn me off supporting the campaign, because of the Christian group and what other causes they had supported.

But the campaign group ploughed on, took a legal case and were vindicated in their concerns by the UK Supreme Court.

Example #2: EU referendum
I spent some time campaigning for Remain and most memorably spent a few hours in my hometown leafleting a few days before the vote. Standing on the same block were a former senior advisor to the Tory party, an SNP member and a lifelong Labour voter.

That individuals with very differing (often oppositional) politics could come together to fight for the same issue I found really moving. I remember too a photocall of Cameron, Ashdown and Kinnock doing a stint on a Remain phonebank, and felt similarly moved.

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn refused to share a platform with any Tory or even (horrors) Brown or Blair. Of course, we can only speculate here but you have to wonder if we would be where we are now had he not taken such a puritanical view re engaging with the main Remain campaign.

If we indulge the culture wars narrative, aren't we ourselves just being complicit in the polarisation of politics, which is what's got us where we are today (Trump, Brexit etc.)?

OP posts:
Original poster
howonearthdidwegethere · 30/09/2018 11:24

Thanks for the responses so far.

I've been challenged in my views just recently. I follow a group that campaigns on digital rights (e.g. preventing corporations and governmental organisations gaining access to the private data of citizens). And now I find out one of its directors is a lawyer who campaigns to stop the censorship of extreme pornography.

OP posts:
bluetitsaretits · 30/09/2018 11:20

Very interesting post- the polarisation that's happening is really worrying.
I saw a documentary on silicon valley a while back. The tech company reps talked about how technology will ultimately solve humanity's problems but in order to do so we will need to go through a complete breakdown of the established social structures. They referred to this process as 'disruption '. Sounds a bit 'tinfoil hat', but it feels like that is exactly what's happening and the tech companies are driving it.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 30/09/2018 11:18

People of good will can work together, despite differences in ideology. Just being a Christian group wouldn’t necessarily mean right-wing or deeply conservative views, movements like liberation theology certainly embrace radical politics.

On the other hand, a confluence of views between feminists and right-wing groups might be a kind of artificial agreement springing from very different motives. Right-wing groups rarely centre the rights of women.

Discerning the difference might be a matter of working out what succcess for each group looks like and then interrogating whether any agreement is real or incidental.

deepwatersolo · 30/09/2018 11:16

I don‘t care for moral purity. I am staunchly antiwar, and if that means allying with Ron Paul libertarians (US) I will (on this particular matter). Even though they have batshit crazy ideas in other areas.

LassWiADelicateAir · 30/09/2018 11:16

Example #1: Named Person law
In Scotland, the SNP Govt passed a law (supported by all the opposition parties bar the Tories) that would have assigned every child in Scotland a state guardian. Please Google for more details if you're interested

It was an idiotic proposal which , as far as I can see, never had any support outside Holyrood. The tragic ironic twist is that poor Liam Fee had a "named person" under Fife Council's pilot.

Example 2 - "Better Together " brilliant campaign and great outcome. Corbyn of course would have refused to have anything to do with it in case it sullied the purity of his ideals, as he idiotically did during the Remain campaign.

MN is awash with this sort of purity nonsense- all the "I hate Tories/ I'd never date a Tory" posts or the Rod Liddle thread today or a previous one where a poster declared "Rod Liddle hates women"

silentcrow · 30/09/2018 11:14

Agreed - ideological purity is what's got us into this mess and is what's keeping many people from seeing reality at the moment. It's really noticeable in the press - for so long, if you were leftish you could trust the BBC, the Guardian, and you sneered at the Torygraph. I haven't clicked on a Sun link for decades (grew up in Merseyside, you can understand!), and the Mail was intolerable.

And yet, here we are. Strange bedfellows, to be sure.

HalloumiGus · 30/09/2018 11:10

It's an interesting question. I have woke feminist friends who are uneasy about speaking out on gender issues because they are concerned about seeming allied to right wing conservative groups. They are not our natural bedfellows!

As for Corbyn I was a fan but I feel like Labour as a whole have behaved unforgiveably over Brexit. They need to get their house in order before the Tory infighting drags us off a cliff.

Sorry I'm slightly hungover and typing one handed in a cafe ramming a bagel down my throat 😁