Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...

If you were to need an intimate examination (or your sister, daughter, mother were) would you prefer a woman?

If the intimate examination is because you have been raped would you want it to be done by a woman?

What if you were n police/prison custody so you had no choice but to be examined with or without your consent.

How would you feel if the person examining you had a male body? Possibly a beard definitely a penis.

Under self ID that is the reality.

Or lets say you work in a women's prison, you have to search some prisoners. One of the prisoners is a 6ft male who has a conviction for rape but since then has decided he feels like a woman. You have no choice but to carry out the search, even if he is getting an erection from your discomfort and clearly enjoying himself.

You then lock him in a cell with a 19 year old who has been raped in her past. You have no choice in this.

David Challanor reaped and tortured a little girl whilst he was dressed as a girl. Do you think that child (probably a teenager now) should be able to go into a toilet or changing room and not see a penis?

This is what we object to, the self id and the way it is being abused.

Not people with body dismorphia who have had surgery and hormone treatment, and who, incidentally are just as vilified by the TRAs as any other women.

I too am astonished that Susie Green has not been charged with multiple offences. I am even more astonished that organisations take advice from her and don't see the danger.

The Susie Green public inquiry is going to be one hell of an inquiry when it eventually comes.

I'm terribly ignorant on this but I thought someone wasn't transgender until reassignment had taken place and a lot of the people being referred to are what used to be known as transvestites or cross dressers, self identifying some of the time with personal gain

yes, this is where most people are.

The clip where Susie Green and her mother [could be her MIL I suppose] were laughing about the size of her son's penis and how it was of no use now, because of the ILLEGAL drugs they bought online.

Yeah. That. Right. There.

She should be in jail, not on prime time TV.

Not improved, impressed in the boy‘s mind, duh!

My take away from Susie Green‘s TED Talk was that she would have been ok with an effeminate boy but the kid‘s father could not take it, and daddy’s attitude improved in the boy‘s mind that really only girls can like this stuff, so kid decided they must be a girl. Didn‘t save the marriage in the end but may still have been the most acceptable route for Daddy - who became supportive ( presumably the psychological device of ‚girl brain in boy body‘ helps Daddy cope).

This is the first time I've seen the phrase peak transed but the thread came up in active and as I'm nosy I clicked. Well. I'm now sitting having a coffee absolutely horrified at what is happening in the world that I had no idea about. Googling words and acronyms and people with my mouth open.

I'm terribly ignorant on this but I thought someone wasn't transgender until reassignment had taken place and a lot of the people being referred to are what used to be known as transvestites or cross dressers, self identifying some of the time with personal gain.

I'm going to need to get my head round the implications of this.

The thing I still don't get is what about men and women that genuinely want to transition as they feel they are in the wrong body and have no desire to do any harm to anybody, aren't doing it for their own gains (in fact probably harder for them to do than remain as their original gender).

They've been thrown under the bus along with all women by the trans-activists, who are in far greater numbers.

The bottom line, however, is how do you tell which is which when you're framing law and policy? The law is unable to differentiate adequately - especially if self-id becomes law - between James-who-became-Jan, who is no threat to anyone and Ian-who-wants-to-be-called-Lian-or-possibly-Nicola, who is a threat to all women and girls and committed the brutal murder of two girls. Both would be entitled to the same access to women's spaces, services, etc and the one currently in a maximum security prison is already entitled (under prison policy) to demand that he be placed in a women's prison.

Datun watching that Susie Green ted talk is what peak trans me. It was her utter ignorance that the way she and her H, had treated that 4 year old, had anything to do with the child’s subsequent thoughts/behaviour/feelings etc.

The ignorance and arrogance of SG, left me reeling.

Susie Green the head of Mermaids is on record saying something that utterly shocked me.

When her (then) son wanted to play with dolls and all sorts of girls' toys she says (in a Ted talk I think), something like 'so of course we took him to the doctor'.

Her assumption was that something must be wrong. Gender stereotyping was so ingrained in Susie Green she had no other explanation.

Her child was utterly miserable. Especially when Susie and her husband removed all their toys in a desperate bid to cure their child.

It's extraordinary to me that a parent has so little insight into even armchair psychology.

The flick of an eyebrow, a certain tone of voice can affect a child. Small things, a throwaway sentence, can have a profound and lasting effect.

Removing all their toys because they are 'wrong', would be devastating.

The fact that Green still talks about this, years later, as justification, is shocking.

Five minutes on mumsnet, not just the feminist boards, would have set her straight years ago. Because although not the whole of mumsnet agrees on the trans issue, most women on here do agree on trying not to force gender on their children.

Datun

I watched that when it was on, it was fascinating!

I apologise for my snippy earlier post.

As a previous poster said, no one can 'peak trans' you. If you get the chance to read through a few of the threads on here you will probably get there by yourself. In the end lots of bits pull together and suddenly 'live and let live' turns into 'let us live our way and to hell with you' and that is what cemented it for me.

They don't affect my day to day life at all.

I'm alright Jack.

I think this is very heavily linked to why people transition though isn't it. It's the social conditioning from birth

Yes definitely. Almost all stories of transition start with 'I was miserable wearing/playing X gendered thing'.
There certainly is a form of body dysmorphia that centres on sex characteristics but the vast majority of people who identify as trans aren't really talking about their bodies, they are talking about gendered stereotypes and expectations.

Lots of homosexual feminine boys and men transition due to internalised homophobia. Being a straight woman > a gay man.
Likewise many butch lesbian girls and women transition due to hideous lesbophobia/butchphobia. Again, being a straight man puts you at the top of the pile whereas being a butch lesbian puts you fairly near the bottom in terms of privilege and acceptance.

I think this is very heavily linked to why people transition though isn't it. It's the social conditioning from birth

Yes, exactly. I meant the programme doesn't specifically address trans.

We rigidly enforce gender in 2018. And the trans ideology is a result. Unfortunately it does exactly the same, despite pretending to do the opposite.

Hi Rightlikeagirl I had two peak trans moments that I remember.

1. Hearing that trans activists were complaining about transphobia because feminists equated being female with having female anatomy during the 2017 Women's March - and the feminists caved, apologised and agreed to centre males in their feminism.

2. Reading about the cotton ceiling - which is so ridiculous I thought it was a joke at first.

Another thing I initially thought was a joke was the Human Rights Campaign's decision to refer to natural vaginas as 'front holes' while post-op transwomen get the word vagina. It wasn't a joke.

Ooops. Missed a whole page of the thread when responding.

People who want to quietly and genuinely transition because of medically diagnosed dysmorphia already can do so and have been doing so for years. This whole thing will probably also backfire on them.

*I want nice, genuine people to feel happy and safe and idiots and horrible and evil people to lose their rights but then that's very simplistic and the world isn't like that.

I guess I'm just wondering what is the solution for the poor people that just want to "quietly transition" as a PP put it*

Self ID will mean that those genuine people you refer to will lose their rights to safe spaces (when they have been using women's spaces all along) and also to proper medical care (amongst other things, individuals will be pushed along the path to transition instead of receiving proper and rigorous counselling as a first resort).

Here is an account from a group of concerned transwomen, some of whom post here.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/04/standing-up-for-transsexual-rights

ubercorntheunicorn

Watch the programme I mentioned.

Then see if you can get the head to do so.

Rightlikeagirl

Here is the break it down for me thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Give yourself a few minutes to contemplate an environment where sex categories don't legally exist. But still exist biologically.

All the disadvantages that women have, which we address, suddenly can't be addressed.

For instance, Karen White a male rapist and paedophile who was incarcerated in a female prison where they attacked four women. Karen has just been convicted. The sex segregation that addresses women's physical disadvantage doesn't exist if men can be women.

Any man. Karen isn't trans. Karen is a drag queen. (And had form for attacking vulnerable women who couldn't escape!)

Men can be lesbians. With girl dicks. Stonewall agrees. And lesbians are transphobic for not including them.

There are so many different scenarios that the only way to understand is to read.

And make no mistake your children stand every chance of being taught this st school.

In addition and quite apart from the lessons in gender, inclusivity and what constitutes hate speech, children everywhere are given subliminal messages about stereotyping.

It's admirable that you're actively looking out for your sons but the messages will be coming externally.

An excellent example is the BBC programme No More Girls and Boys. Where by age seven the only emotion boys could articulate was anger and the only thing girls thought they did better than boys was 'look pretty'.

It's an eye opener. All these adults saying they treat the kids the same being utterly shocked when their behaviour is analysed.

The programme is nothing to do with transitioning. Except to show exactly how we inadvertently enforce gender.

WRT socialisation - My DS has just started school. Before summer, he used to like all the colours. He used to say that pink was one of his favourite colours. Now, he hates pink and purple. Because they are girl colours he says.

This has happened over a matter of weeks.

The funny thing is, I could kind of believe that he'd gone from liking pink and purple to hating them. But we've just found out that he's colourblind. And one of the colours he tends to struggle with is pink, because to him it looks the same as how blue looks like to him.

He doesn't hate pink because of how it looks, because he sees it differently to us. He hates it because it's a girls colour, and he's a boy.

I didn't teach him that, he's always played with toys of all colours, especially having an older sister. But it's already started, within weeks of him starting school. Boys v girls, pink v blue.

Thing is, it is impossible to untangle. Because a law was made so that transsexuals weren't discriminated against.

It has been used to crush women because abusive men jumped on when they realised that they could 'be' victims and gain sympathy for their narcissism.

Many 'genuine' trans people are horrified because of this, and the fact that people who used to 'live and let live' had enough of the abuse they got when they pointed out that rapists should not be in women's prisons etc...and now say 'look, it is impossible to change sex, so lets just stick to that as a classification'.