Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...

Do women and girls have a right to say NO to boys and men?

Are women and girls entitled to legal recognition and protections of their SEX?

Should it be a crime if women and girls insist upon some female only places and services?

How should we criminalise and punish women who hold female only meetings, rape crisis centres, refuges and sports?

Should it be legally compulsory for the 33million of us in the UK who are female to officially adopt an 'internal, invisible female essence' unrelated to biology so that we can be forcibly grouped with men who believe they possess it and insist we do too?

Don't ask us questions. A thousand others before you have asked those questions of us and there are literally millions of words on this feminist board answering over and over and over and over.

Ask yourself these questions and have intellectual integrity with your answers.

Should females have a right to say no to males?
Should females have a right to reject a male definition of womanhood that doesn't fit?
Should women be punished for telling the truth?

I want YOU to convince me that I should be forbidden, in law, from telling the truth, from rejecting a category I don't belong in, from having legal boundaries that differentiate me from men.

Convince yourself first, then convince me instead.

And then tell me how I should be punished under our own laws for saying this:
I am female.
Males can never become female.
Identities don't matter.
I don't accept that men who call themselves women belong in a category with me.
I differentiate myself from men by sex, not by invisible feelings.

NRTF as the round and round hurts my head.

All the bloody pigeon holling that goes on. I am not a CIS woman - personally I find that term highly offensive, divisional and derogatory.

The issue with a lot of what is going on, is that we as women are now being "firmly" put back in our boxes. Must like pink, must be demure, must be a cissy woman, can't be aggressive, can't get angry, how dare we be entitled to be called women.

"Men should be real men and women should be cis women?? " and everyone else can be whatever they want to be. Seriously screwed up.

I had short hair as a kid, wore dungarees, I don't like dresses, my dolls we used to make parachute weights. I have had a very "male" career. I have been told often during my career that I am too "male" in my thinking - by men and woman. Many have been surprised to find out I'm straight and married with DCs.

I am a Woman, and nobody man or woman is going to relabel me. Labelling is bad news, labelling leads to discrimination, less rights, stereotypes. It feels like we are being sent back to the 1950s and given a Good Housekeeping guide on how to be little (cis) women.

Iputthescrewinthetuna

Student politics is the only answer I can come up with. That and a subsection of people who are into what they call ‘kink’ way to take what they do mainstream and create a space for themselves where quite niche activities are more socially acceptable.

You also cannot discount the amount of misogyny in these communities.

I get that @MissSusanSays. I suffer from a disease only a woman can have. My last baby nearly killed me. I suffer daily. I have had 5 miscarriages....trust me this is not a privilege! I am also a victim of sexual assault. Again, no privilege!
Is there anything, as an individual that I can do! I want my children to go into changing rooms and feel safe. I just don't understand how it has got to the point where the term female has gotten so twisted.

It's difficult to be respectful when you've ignored the whole thread and effectively asked the original OP question again.

Why don't you read the thread Iputthescrewinthetuna?

Don't what the fuck me. Be respectful! I don't get it, I am asking a genuine question!

Iputthescrewinthetuna

By the sounds of it you are just like everyone else on here. I don’t think anyone doesn’t like transwomen or would be rude or horrible to them.

I just don’t think it’s fair to let men take women’s single sex spaces away or for them to tell us how to define ourselves. That is classic misogyny.

I’m a woman. But I’m my own type of woman. I don’t want to be pigeon holed to fit someone else’s agenda. I’m not cis, my miscarriage wasn’t a ‘cis privilege’. And my current struggle to conceive definitely doesn’t make me the same as a man who wants to be a woman.

Those last bits are why I’m angry.

Dear god, we're back at the beginning of the thread again. Groundhog thread.

No one hates you but what the fuck.

I have a question! Please don't hate me, I live in a world where women are equal. Men are respectable. I have a career, DP is a SAHD. I go to the ladies loos and see just ladies. I have 3 DDs, I hope for them that their futures are as lovely as my life.

If a transwoman came up to you in a shop and asked for directions to the mens changing room, would you be happy? Is it just where they choose to change, exercise, pee that bothers you?
If a transwoman who has had the operation to remove penis asked for the female changing room, would that be ok?

I personally dont want penises in the female changing room, but once the op is done, Id be ok.

I was asked a question on here, what makes you feel like a woman? Great question, as I throw on a pair of jeans and whatever top I touch first. Make up only happens if I can be bothered. You can be a woman without giving birth. The only constant is, women look down and see a vagina. So my answer is the fact i have a vagina makes me female. In fact, is this not how we check animals and babies. We see penis - boy, we see vagina - girl.
Are the people who are angry, jist angry because of the spaces they are fighting to change in? If so, I get it. Am I missing something else?

The thing that peaked me was the fact that the current transagenda is so homophobic and regressive.

Woman= anyone who feels like one
Lesbian= people who are attracted to women
Ergo lesbian have to be attracted to anyone who says they are a woman even if they still have a penis.

I think I’m right in saying most people on here have no problem with transsexuals, cross dressers and drag queens. It’s the militant Goldsmiths gender studies students who are all about identity politics and oppression olympics that are the problem.

Transwomen are transwomen. That statement shouldn’t be getting people sacked and abused.

I generally am pretty laid back. I worked with a man years ago who it turned out was actually born a woman. He did the whole living as a man for x amount of years, hormones, surgery, gender certificate (apologies if I'm not using the correct terminology, I don't mean to offend anyone!) and I was gobsmacked when I found out. I genuinely would have not believed if i hadn't seen their old passport
That's fine by me, he lives pretty quietly, gets on with his life and it never really comes up in conversation

But then I have someone else I know who decided around late 30s he wanted to be a woman. He already had mental health issues and numerous suicide attempts. Is taking hormones off the internet. Changed his name, posts a lot about how women's issues affect him. And then turned up in my female only class because "he's a woman"
He's literally dressing as a woman and so that makes him one? And also says he's a lesbian. But he has a penis, and currently had stopped taking hormones

We can talk about Susie green. The mods don't approve of the concentrated discussion about the genitalia of children.

Fair enough.

Frankly the Suzie Green thing makes me breathless.

She was so upfront about her belief in gender. She truly thought there was something wrong with her child. To even contemplate that she might have been wrong would be horrifying.

But, I have to remind myself that she is now head of a charity that advises other parents.

The transwoman who looked exactly like a man was Danielle Muscato. They have since started to wear women's clothing. But for years, they looked like this photograph.

Yes Danielle Muscato was the one I was thinking off, Thanks.

OP - Google the above individual and come back and tell us what you think.

I'll go back to my lurking now.

On a recent radio show (5Live) a woman called in to talk about a camping trip the had taken with a new friend - a transwoman - who identified as a woman, but still was male-bodied, wore men's clothing, and had a shaved head an a beard.

They were made call them 'she'. How they all laughed when they all occasionally slipped up, ('she' was very understanding apparently, but did have to keep reminding them all) just because this person didn't look at all like a 'she'.

Alex Drummond.

Danielle Muscato

And YY to that bbc documentary. It really spelt out a lot for me at the time about how harmful gender stereotyping is for children.

Danielle muscato? Or Alex
Drummond?

Alex Drummond?

On Susie Green

1. I also don't understand how she was not prosecuted. I assume that some girls are willing to have FGM because they have accepted their culture's reason. Her parents would still be prosecuted for having it done.

1. The moderation around this family on Mumsnet. I don't understand how we can be deleted for talking about this when the mother and now adult child have had documentaries and flipping TED talks about the very topic.

I don't post on here, ever. I just lurk quietly.

But please can somebody remind me of the name of the "transwoman" who has made absolutely no attempt to transition, still has a beard etc...?

All of the above are extremely valid points of course, but that man who in every way shape and form looks, appears, speaks, stands, acts like a man would be able to declare himself a woman and share our spaces was the final nail in the coffin for me. Why can't I remember his name!!!!!

Ive namechanged here, but Suzy Green taking her child to the doctor for wanting girls toys.

That happened to me.

Im female, i wanted a toy truck. My mother was horrified and took me to the doctor. He (apparently) laughed uproariously and said buy her a bloody truck.

This was in 1976

It wouldn’t happen now. And that fuckng scares me.

thought someone wasn't transgender until reassignment had taken place
*
Haireverywhere* I think this is where a lot of people still are stuck and every time I have this conversation people say - well ok, so what, self-ID you have to fill in a form and send in your certificate showing you've had surgery to prove you are trans. Or something similar to that. When I explain that no surgery is necessary, no proof of being trans at all is necessary except an assertion of that fact, and that most people don't actually end up having surgery, they often experience a period of serious cognitive dissonance.

I've been where you are, do you feel the scales have fallen from your eyes? That you have to reassess everything around you regarding women's rights? It's very disorienting, I know

Iirc Paris Lees also had some sort of girls toy ban when they were growing up. I think they were all carted off to a charity shop.