I gave all my classes this riddle this week - 3 kids got the answer.

I don't feel like it is just linguistics, but I'm trying to think of a gender-neutral job title which is more associated with women too, and a parallel situation to make the point. I'm not having much luck though!

How about; it's the year 2030 and the government's secretly poisoning people through selected restaurants (because, you know - reasons). A dad and his son arrive at one and order the deadly poison meal. The chef looks across, and says "I can't feed him this. That's my son!"

Would you instantly think second father/stepfather/grandfather then? I don't think I would as the word "chef" means woman to me in my experience (maybe not to others).

(Someone's going to think of such an obvious parallel and I'll feel so stupid in a minute!)

Please someone try it, on a person who hasn't been exposed to the original, with the mother/daughter variant - does the linguistic lead hold?

Asked younger daughter, who's 8. She went for "stepdad", which I don't think I've seen come up, and is still a logical conclusion to draw. I know she's been thinking about step-parents quite a bit lately as a couple of families in her class have remarried, and probably just assumed you say "son" even if it's not a biological relation.

I do think it's linguistically leading as she then went for second dad and even Grandad before realising that was impossible, so it must be mum.

Your assumption was this is down to sexism,

' I said something like 'it's 2018 and it didn't occur to you that doctor could be a woman?' They all went 'Ohhhh!''

Sounds as though she was right though.

As an English teacher I am of course interested in the linguistic explanation for most people getting it wrong; I never said I wasn't. Great if it is that

You never mentioned the linguistic explanation. It did not appear to have occurred to you, despite the fact there is nothing remotely unusual these days about a female doctor, that there might be something else at play. Rather you ticked them off about it being 2018 and didn't it occur to them a doctor could be a woman.

Your assumption was this is down to sexism, hence they got a nice little lecture on feminism as a bonus rather than any critical analysis of how language might influence thought. You are supposed to be teaching English, not social studies.

Your response is now , "oh don't pick on me". I'm not picking on you unless you think pointing out something you hadn't thought of is picking on you.

I just asked DS8. The only option he could come up with was that the boy was dead and didn't need operating on. Oh dear.

On the re-written version, where the driver and the passenger were both female, the instant picture that came into my mind was the doctor was also female, not that the doctor was the girl's father.

It would be somewhat interesting to try that version 'in the wild'. My suspicion is that the most usual reaction would be along the lines of 'huh? The doctor is the girl's dad, obviously'.

It’s very little to do with feminism and everything to do with lazy thinking and a lack of common sense

It might have had to do with feminism decades ago when it first appeared. It has nothing to do with feminism now.

It might have a valid point if the OP had spent some time to think about why the wording and the use of language led to this result (big hint is the "2 dads answer") which she doesn't appear to have done.

My 5 year old just got it, DP didn't

It’s very little to do with feminism and everything to do with lazy thinking and a lack of common sense.

DH, who works in the NHS, got this before I'd even finished the question

Mine just said the boy has two dads.

Second guess was: the dad came back from the dead.

She was fairly embarrassed when I told her the right answer!

(almost secondary age).

8yo dd thought the dr could be the dad because the kid might have 2 dads. 6yo ds didn't get it, but I'm not sure he understood the question. I did switch it to a daughter and that made little difference. Dh got it but took longer than I'd hope. And we think ourselves feminists in this house too - the shame!

Lweji
Fuck
I hope it was indeed the male bias in the question, because I though it was a male doctor too

That is a far more plausible explanation than the "no one thinks women can be doctors" explanation.

It also explains the gay dad answers far more plausibly than the alternative that everyone is now so cool with gay parents answer.

On the re-written version, where the driver and the passenger were both female, the instant picture that came into my mind was the doctor was also female, not that the doctor was the girl's father.

My 6 yr old said straight away:
The nurse is his mum.

I said but it was a doctor, he said:
Well the doctor was his mum.

So kind of got it right but not sure of the difference between a doctor and a nurse !

My son (8) said 2 dad's. My daughter (6) said the doctor could be the mum! I'm surprised really!

But I didn't set the question with a feminist agenda in mind

I am secptical you would have pucked this rather hackneyed old riddle as an exercise in close reading but you turned it into a feminist issue.

You lectured your class on feminism. You posted on here in a "ooh isn't terrible people still think like this".

You don't appear to have taken any time to consider there might be other reasons to get the wrong answer such as the reason which has come out here that the presentation of he, his, him, father, son pushes the listener to expect the next character will also be male.

Fuck.
I hope it was indeed the male bias in the question, because I though it was a male doctor too.
Must revise my unconscious biases.

I tried this today. Dh failed spectacularly dd (6) was busy thinking when ds (also 6) just yelled 'it's his mummy'. Dd would likely have got there, she's a perfectionist so runs through all possible answers in her head before selecting one! Dh hung his head in shame the minute ds said the right answer

Tbh I think it is a bit unfair to ask the question today and deduce bias.

Years ago,there could be only one answer..the mum. The bias was evident.

But today gay couples can and do marry, can do have children, are seen as a family(as they should). There isn't just one possible answer.

It's perfectly obvious Bob must be the only man in the room.

Just confessing to some bias shame - when this was phrased ‘surgeon, mechanic, lawyer, which one was Bob’ my mind instantly saw that there’s only one man present.... BUT assumed it was the mechanic. In my assumptions doctor/lawyer were female but mechanic was still male. If the choice had been 3 mechanics, it might have stumped me!

Just thought it was interesting how few got the doctor one right

Really OP? Why post it on FWR then?

This is what you wrote

But it only occurred to 3 kids out of nearly 100 that the doctor could be a woman. Not one of the Year 7s thought of it.

In this day and age? I couldn't believe it!

They got a nice little lecture on feminism as a bonus that lesson