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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dear Transactivists

87 replies

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 06:17

This is a message, not to trans people, but to the transactivists who are doing everything in their power to silence women.

To the woman hating men who hide their loathing of women behind transactivism, and who cannot bear to hear us speak up and defy them. To the Serena Joys, the women who join these men in fighting to undo the gains that women have made in the past one hundred years. You are traitors to your sex.

In a week where a billboard stating the definition of woman has been removed for containing hate speech, and a women’s rights group have been stopped by a local council from gathering to meet, I want to send a clear message to the transactivists who are so desperate to silence us and who I know read Mumsnet. And I know I speak on behalf of many thousands of women, in ever growing numbers.

You will NEVER silence us.

You can ban us, from here, from social media. We will create new accounts. You can bully venues into cancelling our meetings. We will meet in each other’s living rooms, in parks, in the street if we have to. You can take our posters and billboards down. We will put up a hundred more in their place, every time.

And every time you try to silence us, you draw more attention to our cause, and we are joined by many more women, and men, who see your hatred and misogyny, and speak out against it.

We know you have the media and politicians and money and power on your side, and we are ordinary women, organising at grass roots, on a shoe string.

But you will never, ever silence us. No matter how hard you try. We will never stop fighting and the more you try to stop us, the more determined we become. We’re the great granddaughters of the suffragettes.

I have no doubt this post may be removed, as women are no longer allowed to stand up to bullies on Mumsnet. Even so, the sentiment will remain.

You will NEVER stop us.

OP posts:
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Datun · 30/09/2018 12:19

I'm not sure that these individuals are representative of the decent trans women who just wants to get on with her lives!

Except they say they are. Jane Fae, Jess Bradley, Tara Hewitt, Mermaids, Gires, all gave written and verbal evidence to the government to produce their equality report.

Action for trans health is another organisation which gave evidence. Who want the immediate release of all trans prisoners, and that trans people be instructed in surgery so they can operate on one another. Seriously, their manifesto is absolutely unhinged.

Jess Bradley is the founder member of TELI, a strategic litigation group.

Aimee Challoner was the Green party deputy leader candidate, for heaven sake!

These people are holding positions of responsibility, many of them LGBT official representatives. Across the board. You can't say they're not representative. They are.

They may not be representative of men with gender dysphoria. But that's not who we talking about. That's not who is changing the law. That's not who is driving this.

The entire point is it is exactly these people who are clamouring for access to vulnerable women and girls.

My DH wouldn't dream of accessing a female toilet. It wouldn't cross his mind to make women feel uncomfortable to validate his inner self. Nice, decent men wouldn't. So who are you left with?

I'll never understand it when people say oh those people - you'll always find that kind of person lurking in the dark corners of the internet or under the nearest stone.

Exactly. Coming to your daughter's changing room.

breastfeedingclownfish · 30/09/2018 11:23

Well said OP

Me too. I have been pushed into political activism by this issue and am actively campaigning against it. I'm fucking livid that women are being told that they no longer have a word that describes them and that we are a feeling in a man's head.

I am an ordinary boring average woman. I know plenty of other normal woman who are now campaigning against this. Actually, as it turns out, we are not 'ordinary' at all, and the talent and energy of these women is inspiring. There are many grassroots women's groups forming around the country and we are organising and working against this. For any lurkers who want to organise - just do it, start a secret FB group with other women and get started.

This is the hill I will die on. They will have to kill me to shut me up. I'm never going to shut up about this or accept it.

heresyandwitchcraft · 30/09/2018 11:11

Fee both Aimee Challenor and Alex Drummond sit on Stonewall's Trans Advisory board. Jess Bradley is the paid NUS Trans Officer and advised the government and NHS via Action for Trans Health.
They are certainly at least claiming to represent trans people at the highest levels of influence.

Theswaggyotter · 30/09/2018 10:39

No fee I’m sure they are not but unfortunately they are the ones pushing for more and more extreme ‘rights’ - you should read the Action for Trans health manifesto (I think that’s the name) which demands amongst other things immediate release of all trans prisoners, free access to whatever hormones and surgery they want including right to reversal surgery if they change their mind.

I think the genuine trans people with gender dysphoria need to distance themselves from the stonewall trans definition (the one including cross dressers, gender fluid, etc, etc) or they will rapidly lose public sympathy as the TRAs’ paraphilias and extreme views become more widely publicised

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 30/09/2018 10:38

except under stonewall rules we have to treat them as if they are the same Feefleur

it's a big problem

if opening the drawbridge lets the Karen Whites and Marie Deans of the world in, it's safer to close it entirely.

Feefleur · 30/09/2018 09:53

Thank you for this Datun.
There are some very strange people out there but I wouldn't want to breach any libel laws!
I'm not sure that these individuals are representative of the decent trans women who just wants to get on with her lives!

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 30/09/2018 07:42

Barracker

Yes. I really can't bear that a delusion is given credence. I can't bear to be told to believe something I don't believe. And I really don't like children being told lies

BitOfFun · 30/09/2018 02:03

Oh yes. Yes indeed.

Barracker · 30/09/2018 00:43

I actually don't think anyone should have the 'right' to lie and demand that lie be accepted.
I don't think anyone should have the 'right' to erase in law a category of people that excludes them.
I don't think anyone should have the 'right' to be included in a category in which they do not belong.
I don't think anyone has the 'right' to subjugate truth and facts underneath lies and myths.
I don't think the words 'identify as' are meaningful or useful, except to those who would like to override reality with their fantasy.
It seems to me that these are the rights that are being demanded, and not only am I happy to state that, yes I believe they should categorically never be rights granted to trans people, I also believe that they are rights that should not be granted to any person, ever.

None of us should have such 'rights' because they are not rights, they are in fact an authorisation to oppress.

None of us should have them.

Datun · 29/09/2018 23:55

On another point I am aware of references to so called TRAs. Would someone be able to name these people please?

Ah, this might explain things.

fee seriously read this. It's a collation of TRA musings.

terfisaslur.com/

If you want famous transactivists, Shon Faye who told women to 'enjoy their erasure' and whose advice to youngsters is to 'suck dick and get tits early'.

Danielle Muscato. Who took the place of a woman in a woman's shelter and tweeted, on International women's day, I'm a woman and if you don't believe me you can suck my dick.

Alex Drummond who has a beard and wears a skirt, but brings out the 'inner lesbian' in his his girlfriend. Alex archly assures the camera that yes, women can be mechanics too, you know.

Lily Madigan who says Muslim women need to be re-educated if they struggle to be naked around strange men, and claims they can get pregnant but they are currently infertile in that way, just like any other woman who isn't ovulating. Lily occupies the position of women's officer of the Labour Party, with the remit to encourage women into the party. But they are busy compiling a secret list of women who disagree with them in order that they can be ousted from the party. Their original Twitter account had a link to Jimmy Savile's apprentice. They are 20 years old.

Oh perhaps Jesse Bradley who is currently under investigation by the NUS, for getting their cock out at work, encouraging school boys to do the same, and has under age rape cartoons on their website.

Or Amy Challanor, erstwhile Green party Deputy leader candidate, whose (alleged?) nappy fetish is plastered across Twitter. And who employed their dad, whilst knowing he had been arrested for child rape and torture.

Or Jane Fae who advised the government, and is a lifelong advocate of extreme porn, and is in favour of lowering the age limit of participants.

Or Tara Wood who punched a pensioner in the face for daring to convene with other women, and has been convicted of battery.

And numerous other Twitter TRAs who relentlessly persecute women.

Well, that's a start. Let me know when you get through those, I have more.

heresyandwitchcraft · 29/09/2018 23:01

Sorry, that should read:
(unlike Goldsmith's LGBTQ twitter saying women should go to the Gulag...)

heresyandwitchcraft · 29/09/2018 23:00

Eh?
No hatred here. Nobody at Feminist Chat is advocating violence (unlike punch a T*RF) or saying people should go to concentration camps (unlike Goldsmith's saying women should go to the Gulag...)
Just actually using reality, facts, and investigating people who are promoting the erosion of women's sex based protections in the name of "trans rights?" Criticism of the tactics used by those who say a billboard with the definition of "woman"is now transphobic? We cannot examine the individuals who are advising the government?
Perhaps you'd like to take a look at the recent scandals around Jess Bradley (alleged public penis flasher), David Challenor (rapist/torturer of a 10-year-old girls and champion of self-ID) and his relationship to Aimee (who thought it was okay to have him as an electoral agent despite the arrest), and the background of Jane Fae (previous advocate for extreme pornography)? These are "TRAs".
Now there is the alleged behaviour of Stephanie Hayden (where their status as someone qualified to deal with law has been brought into question)?
That's a good couple of names to get started on.
Is it hateful to say that a trans woman was born male? Or a trans man born female? After all, if they weren't, would they be trans? (no).
Germaine Bunbury wouldn't be to pleased.

LangCleg · 29/09/2018 22:57

Apropos of nothing: British swearing is superior to American swearing, I feel.

RedDogsBeg · 29/09/2018 22:56

I don't think Feefluer understood lydia's post at all.

Feefleur · 29/09/2018 22:47

Yes let's get over it. There is a level of underlying hatred and bigotry that exists on this site that is utterly disturbing. There are people who are trans. They do not choose this so can we not share some love and support for one another as opposed to the hatred that currently exists.
We should be working together not fighting each other.
On another point I am aware of references to so called TRAs. Would someone be able to name these people please?

littlbrowndog · 29/09/2018 22:47

Mrs beaujangles 👏

heresyandwitchcraft · 29/09/2018 22:41

Fee. Your post makes little sense. Explain your position. Would you include trans activists being decidedly awful to women in that? Because if you don't know about that side of this whole situation, then you have no idea why the OP has written the post.
terfisaslur.com/
That's a good place to start.

Feefleur · 29/09/2018 22:34

I think Lydia it is the point of being assholes to those that are different and there are plenty on this site that are assholes to those that are different

heresyandwitchcraft · 29/09/2018 22:17

I think it's more complicated than that, because they want absolute validation of their claims.
The trans activist idea: "I am what I say I am because I say so," only works if everyone else agrees. So they have to continually seek external things to verify their internal identity, including documentation and legislation to back it up.
Somewhere inside, the activists know this is all built on a house of cards which is only kept up by others acquiescing.
The "old-school transsexuals" are far better adjusted because their whole definitions are grounded in actual definitions ("I am a person definitively of one sex with intractable gender dysphoria who has had to modify my body in order for it to conform better to my own internal sense of self as a person of the opposite sex, and all I want to do is live a quiet life", versus "I am literally the same as the opposite sex and always have been so stop talking about your transphobic reproductive biology or same-sex orientation").
I genuinely think that it's the continual cognitive dissonance of these activists, insisting they are the same as females, but knowing that females are actually a different biological category, that drives this. It's an impossible fiction they are trying to attain, which causes anger and makes them specifically vulnerable to female dissent. And our very existence as females continually reminds them of this.
I've read on trans forums that it's actually better when trans people accept the basic impossibility of becoming the opposite sex.
So again.
Trans people are trans.
Trans people are worthy of courtesy, respect, all human rights, specialist services and support to flourish.
BUT
We don't have a time-machine. We can't change biological sex. We won't dismiss safeguarding concerns. We won't accept abusive behaviour and silencing. We can't re-define material reality. We won't ignore facts. We won't make the dictionary nonsensical. We won't be stopped from calmly speaking about things that are important to us. We will defend females and free speech.
Get over it.

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 21:44

Transactivists will not campaign against these things because they are only interested in bullying women. We have been easy targets until now, with our female socialisation to be nice.

Not any more.

OP posts:
redexpat · 29/09/2018 21:42

Here's my question. Since the argument for allowing self id trans people into womens spaces seems to be based on the need for protection, why aren't tra campaigning against toxic masculinity and gender based violence?

Estellesylvia · 29/09/2018 21:27

Bernard they rarely come back. They plop on a thread to say TWAW and how we are all mean yes but never stay to engage, because they can’t.

OP posts:
ICantBelieveIDidThis · 29/09/2018 13:07

Thanks, lydiamajora, you've given me an idea for another name change....Grin

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/09/2018 13:00

‘You won’t silence me’ SilverBirch not been back to apologise then?

How rude

How predictable

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 29/09/2018 12:35

Amen OP.

As a previous poster said, we are the women. The old fashioned cunty type. And you hate it.

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