Dr Nic FairPlay For Women on Victoria Derbyshire 10.15

Interesting that none of the trans rights groups were available to defend their position. Is this part of their #NoDebate policy? Or were they afraid that their arguments don't stand up to scrutiny?

There seems to be quite a bit of flip-flopping going on as on Monday TELI, Stephen Whittle and Tara Hewitt were upset that they had been cancelled becausethe 'bigotted transphobes' (Fairplay for Women / Helen Watts ?) "wouldn't" discuss with them...

At some point the BBC is going to have to clarify what goes on behind the scenes. It is becoming clear that somes sources are not reliable sources.

Froom

Nic did point out several times that transgirls have male bodies.
I was astonished when Joanna said that girls could be at sexual risk on camp from other girls or did I imagine that ?
In 30 years of Guidiing,not aware of once, Joanna
Nic did brilliantly and came across so sensibly,despite hostile and frankly verging on nonsensical questioning which it would be a struggle to prepare for

Arranfan totally agree with your point about male anger and regulation, projection etc.

Pertinent when it comes to not upsetting some trans people too.

Depending on their reason to be trans/ additional diagnoses, some may have special reason for girls to be trained not to challenge or confront them/ risk poking the hornets nest.

Tara Hudson anyone?

I agree FlowerpotFairyHouse

I think the trouble is that the emotionally manipulative biased and repetitive and logically bizarre questioning makes it very difficult to respond with all your points - it throws you. And that is the intention after all.

Perhaps the tactic needs to be to rehearse a speech and plow on regardless. The BBC has shown it can't have a good faith discussion after all. But the it can look like rhetoric that can't stand scrutiny.

Either way, the BBC sets the GC women's argument up to lose - but they don't suceed.

talkradio.co.uk/

Mike Graham - only it is a woman

Nic is rocking it on TalkRadio at the moment

Did anyone else think it was very telling that Lily's mum said that Guides is meant to be all about teaching girls to be loving and caring?

How very Baden-Powell to think Girls Organisations should be all about socialisation.

Apt Medium article: Men Dump Their Anger Into Women

Why is the less violent gender the one learning all the emotional self regulation?
Because women are expected to regulate the emotions of men as well as themselves. They have to sharpen their emotional regulation skillz because they’ll be regulating for two even when they’re not pregnant. This has been a thing that’s starting to get noticed in feminist circles; the concept of unpaid emotional labor that women are expected to supply. This takes many forms (and I’ve written about this before) and at its most benign looks like listening, support and empathy. However, as it becomes more noxious, women are expected to read the emotions men and proactively protect them from their own negative emotions.

medium.com/@emmalindsay/men-dump-their-anger-into-women-d5b641fa37bc

To reiterate (because I am spitting feathers on this!), I have never before come across a BBC journalist being obliged to uncritically channel the arguments from the "other side" if they couldn't be bothered to show up.

Present them, yes. Say, "mermaids would argue that..." and let Nic respond.

She absolutely should not be saying "But they is no evidence they are a threat" as though that is accurate and then finish with giving the absentees the last word.

Disgraceful and biased.

Did anyone else think it was very telling that Lily's mum said that Guides is meant to be all about teaching girls to be loving and caring?

Yes.

What happened to 'Be Prepared'?

That's for the boys; the scout motto.

When i joined, the Brownies motto was

"Think of others before yourself and do a good turn everyday"

I doubt it's changed much.

Think of others before yourself translates as 'your boundaries are mean'.

Well done Dr Nic.

Mermaids, Stonewall - no show. Telling.
NSPCC - no show on a safeguarding issue for children. Disgusting.

With all the interviews and media attention I keep thinking of those Armstrong & Miller sketches "It's all kicking off!"

I just wish she'd made the point that we have sex segregation for a reason and that, once puberty and sex drive kicks in, we don't have male and female children/teens together in intimate spaces for a reason.

Being trans has no impact on sexual attraction nor sexual urges not sexual behaviour that I am aware of. It certainly hasn't in the very high profile cases we've read about recently.

Oh and the inability of parents to give informed consent. Even if 99% of parents would consent to their daughter sharing a sleeping/changing/showering space with a male child, the 1% who wouldn't should retain the right to exert that choice?

And the safeguarding/risk assessment statement. Surely these were done when it was decided to keep male and female children separate in the first place. Surely that decision was the outcome of a risk assessment.

What is it that they believe counters the biological aspect?

If male children/adolescents aren't a risk to female children's safety/privacy/dignity, then why on earth do we separate them in the first place? Why do we not let them share as par for the course?

I'd have liked to see the interviewer respond to these points.

Hopefully with something other than "but they identify as a girl".

What happened to 'Be Prepared'?

So she was going to do her best to give the opposing view herself.

Well she was great at the emotional manipulation part wasn't she. Hardly seemed to find it an uncomfortable position.

They are talking about parental leave right now, and discrimination against women re maternity etc, and she is totally different in attitude. And no opposing views that I could see.

All the speakers were women talking about the effects of having children though (not a father anywhere) so it does make the BBC look extra biased re the trans issue when they come over all mad.

Whataboutery is no substitute for adequate interview techniques, Joanna Gosling.

Did anyone else think it was very telling that Lily's mum said that Guides is meant to be all about teaching girls to be loving and caring?

Yes I did it sounds like they're socialising doormats. I also find something slightly sinister about the language - be kind, be nice. Who else speaks to children like that? Gah! Too much Muggeridge/Dr Em!

Girl Guiding was invited to send a representative onto the show and declined.

The other important issue is that although Guides are trying to be inclusive to transgirls, this policy is going to impact on some minorities. My daughter has Muslim friends - one wasn't allowed to go swimming with the class as there would be boys there. She was allowed to go to Brownies/Guides as it was female only. There is no way her parents would let her go to camps or sporting activities requiring changing/showering if they thought males would be around.

Kids at 7 don’t get to chose most things in their lives yet they are followed by camera crew. How does this even be allowed and where are the ethics in this
I feel so sad for the lad that everyone around him is allowing this intrusion into their life

I think that, although what Nic said was excellent, I think she's missed an opportunity to say that it's the phrase 'self identify' that is important and a threat.

Did anyone else think it was very telling that Lily's mum said that Guides is meant to be all about teaching girls to be loving and caring?

I don't remember the movement having such overwhelmingly stereotypical aims. I bet nobody describes Scouts that way.
The whole thing made GG basically come across as being a society for making girls know their place and if that is the case I wouldn't want dd anywhere near it even aside from the safeguarding issues.

Why opposing groups. Why not the GGs themselves.

I don't see why groups need to be represented by the interviewer, if they have refused to come on.

Yes OkMaybeNot, girls will be collateral damage. One is too many. There will be excuses. ‘She was provocative, so led her on, she was testing the boundaries, its normal for ‘girls’ to experiment’.

It won’t be the trans girls fault, that’s for sure. 😔

I agree with Piper and Ooofor - girls' dignity is important and this is being compromised by adults who have clearly forgotten what it is like to be a teenage girl (in spite of the recent survey report by GG )

She seemed rather in agreement with them, though. She has a terrible poker face...