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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anne Sinnott vindicated - she was right!

114 replies

SwiftNC · 26/09/2018 01:14

Link to article

But we knew that anyway!

OP posts:
Ikeasucks · 02/10/2018 09:03

There are some fairly well known transwomen on twitter - their pictures all look fairly pasding - they also have video footage on youtube or on interviews - which gobsmackingly shows the opposite.

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 02/10/2018 09:03

All that hyperbole and rubbish about women being put at risk of getting beaten up, when Cambridge has basically just restored their policies to be in line with the law and with what applies in the entire rest of the UK Confused

Can't say we've seen an epidemic of ugly-woman-attacking anywhere else...

frazzled1 · 02/10/2018 09:00

Well done Ann Flowers

NotANotMan · 02/10/2018 08:58

What sarah means by 'you can't tell if someone is trans' is 'you can't tell who is biologically male' which is patently false

Ikeasucks · 02/10/2018 08:57

Is this their recruitment and scaremongering tool? “If you have short hair and jeans on or if you arent pretty - you’re going to get targetted for being s man”

Why are these seemingly unbalanced, dishonest, bullying, weird folk getting into positions to make the rules which affect us all?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/10/2018 08:47

Sarah has convinced these women that as ‘ugly women’

I was Shock about that - that poor woman Sad

arranfan · 02/10/2018 07:40

"You can't tell by looking at someone if they're trans."

StrangeLookingParasite - I do know what you mean, and this probably isn't what they meant in context. However, the Stonewall definition of trans is so broad that pretty much everyone comes under it - so, in a sense, no, nobody would know because pretty much everyone is, including anyone who is gender critical.

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

RepealtheGRA · 02/10/2018 07:37

Sarah has convinced these women that as ‘ugly women’ they may be beaten up trying to use the toilet if ‘Sarah’ is not also allowed in the women’s. This is a truly breathtaking level of Misogyny (and internalised misogyny) and is definitely worthy of national press coverage.

Ikeasucks · 02/10/2018 07:29

This is really quite huge - Sarah and Zoe must be furious. Have those women supporting Sarah and protesting not realised how devious and dishonest Sarsh has been? It’s quite sinister. I hope a bigger media outlet picks this up and focuses on that.

Gileswithachainsaw · 02/10/2018 07:16

Thank you Ann Flowers

boldlygoingsomewhere · 02/10/2018 07:16

What is it with the appropriation of women with PCOS? As for the idea that people can’t tell the difference between butch women and a man...Hmm

Well done, Ann. I’m really pleased your stand bore fruit. We need more politicians like you.

ChiaraRimini · 02/10/2018 07:07

Another one checking in to say thank you and well done Ann Thanks

SignMeUp · 02/10/2018 01:35

landmark decision - Legal Definition. n. A decision that is notable and often cited because it significantly changes, consolidates, updates, or effectively summarizes the law on a particular topic.

Language is POWERFUL!

Really needed this good news

Thank you all
And HUGE gratitude to Ann

StrangeLookingParasite · 02/10/2018 00:40

"You can't tell by looking at someone if they're trans."

Oh dear.

PencilsInSpace · 02/10/2018 00:31

Don't worry, worse things have happened than having my name misspelt!

Yes, like Cambridge City Council denying women and girls their sex-based rights for eight years because of what Sarah Brown did.

You put that right Ann, and have created precedent that will make it very hard for any other council to pull the same trick.

Thank you!

RepealtheGRA · 01/10/2018 23:54

Are they really trying to say that blokes can’t tell the difference between ‘ugly women’ and other blokes, really? Shock

I think they may be judging others by their own levels of ignorance there.

Ikeasucks · 01/10/2018 22:32

Karen said: "Where do you draw the line? If you have short hair, or you can't go in if you're wearing trousers? Where do you draw the line?"

Fucking lol - some folk are as thick as pigs hit- that’s bad enough, but to advertise it willingly!

R0wantrees · 01/10/2018 22:07

Sarah Brown and others protest Cambridge City Council's decision to correctly apply Equality Act 2010 legislation:
(extract)
"Cambridge City Council are proposing altering their equality policy in a way which protesters say will end the non discriminatory policy which protects trans people.

The current policy, introduced in 2010, was a non discriminatory policy for trans people in public places, including toilets.

Sarah Brown, who organised today's (September 30) protest at the Lion Yard public toilets, believes all women and trans people could be put at risk by the change if it is approved.

She told Cambridgeshire Live: "Women friends of mine are appalled. People when they find out can't believe this is happening in Cambridge, as one woman said 'that's stupid'."

"When this sort of thing happens everyone assumes it's about toilets, people make it about toilets."

Protesters gathered outside the Lion Yard toilets
Sarah and other protesters feel all women will be affected and there could be violent threats made towards women who don't conform to traditional ideas of femininity.

She said: "Why do women always have to pay the price for this kind of thing? It's not only trans women who end up affected.

"You can't tell by looking at someone if they're trans."

She added: "You might get someone, especially after a few beers or something, saying a woman who, maybe she's got short hair or is a butch lesbian or has Polycystic ovary syndrome and doesn't look womanly enough and he goes and thumps her, that's happened before.

"We don't want that to happen in Cambridge. It's a dreadful message. We sent a message eight years ago, symbolically, Cambridge is a city that welcomes everyone. If you are LGBT, we've got your back and this [the policy amendment] sends the opposite message.

"It's already making people uncomfortable and worried."

"If you're a trans person, in particular a trans woman, normally we want normal lives and get on with things."

"You want to get by without anyone noticing. Anything that puts us in the public consciousness in a negative light fragments things.

"When Ann Sinnott resigned she started talking about intimate things people do. What is she doing there?" (continues)

In response Cambridge City council has suggested amendments including, replacing references to “gender” with “sex” and replacing references to “transgender” with “gender reassignment” or “transsexual people”. The council says these changes would mean the policy is consistent with the law.

Amendments to the policy also make explicit that the council has discretion to apply the “single sex exemption” in the Equality Act 2010 in very exceptional circumstances.

This exemption enables public bodies to exclude transsexual people from single sex spaces, facilities and jobs where this is a “proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim” and where there is “clear evidence” this is necessary.

Sarah Brown, a former Cambridge city councillor, organised the Lion Yard protest today (September 30)
What protesters had to say
Karen Draper joined the protest because she believes it's "ridiculous" this is still an issue in 2018.

Karen, who has lived in Cambridge for 18 years, told Cambridgeshire Live: "It's something that really interests me. I can't believe we're still having to protest this, everyone should be equal and free to pee where they like."

Protesters handed out leaflets and spoke to people outside the Lion Yard toilets.
Aldabra Stoddart said she was worried about how people would treat less feminine women.

She said: "I'm here because I'm an ugly woman, I don't want people telling me off on my way to the loo or staring me up and down."

Many of the protesters were worried about how the new policy, if approved, will be policed by the council.

Karen Draper, Claire McGuiness and Aldabra Stoddart all questioned whether carrying ID would need to be compulsory, would the issue be self policed by other bathroom goers and if so how would you prove you were a woman?

Karen said: "Where do you draw the line? If you have short hair, or you can't go in if you're wearing trousers? Where do you draw the line?"

Claire McGuiness added: "There are questions about who will police it?"

Claire also raised concerns about how the policy could limit the accessibility of public places for trans people in the city.

She added: "If you can't use public places then you have to stay at home and then what?"

Sarah said people had been very positive about the protest.

She said: "We've been getting a very positive response. They are wishing us well, asking if there are more protests."

What comes next?
Councillors will be asked to vote on a report detailing the council's amendments at the Environment and Community Scrutiny Committee on October 4.

Sarah Brown will be attending and speaking at the meeting, appealing to the council not to go ahead with the changes." (continues)

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-transgender-lion-yard-toilet-15219396

Angryresister · 01/10/2018 21:58

Another success...well done Ann Wine

UpstartCrow · 01/10/2018 21:52

I sincerely hope you return to politics, Ann.

Beamur · 01/10/2018 21:46

This thread reminded me to check a website for an authority local to me. Says 'gender' not sex. I have emailed the web support pointing out there is an error.

R0wantrees · 01/10/2018 21:32

So, did someone deliberately change the wording of the guidelines away from the actual legally protected characteristics to an un authorised characteristic to favour trans rights - who would do that

From the thread inked above, PencilsinSpace wrote:

"Here are the minutes from the Cambridge City Council meeting where they chose to play fast and loose with the EA when it was only 10 days old.
democracy.cambridge.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=159&MId=376

The committee received apologies for absence from Cllr Boyce, Cllr Brown attended as a substitute. Hmm

10/57/SR - Annual Review of Equalities (near the bottom of the page):

Councillor Brown proposed a number of amendments to strengthen the protection for transgender employees and service users. Other members of the committee expressed support for the proposal, although it was noted additional notice about the amendment would have aided the debate. The Head of Strategy and Partnership advised the committee of a number of proposed amendments to address the concerns raised. The Scrutiny Committee endorsed the following amendments by 5 votes to 0;

· Insert into “Employment Practices” section - We will not exclude transgender people from positions, which require a gender-appropriate candidate.

· Insert into the “Valuing our customers – delivering services” section - transgender people will not be excluded from gender-appropriate single sex/sex segregated facilities operated by the council

Shit stinks."

NotANotMan · 01/10/2018 21:26

Sarah Brown did that, deliberately

ChattyLion · 01/10/2018 21:20

Thank you for pointing out the law Ann. Flowers

Ikeasucks · 01/10/2018 21:20

So, did someone deliberately change the wording of the guidelines away from the actual legally protected characteristics to an un authorised characteristic to favour trans rights - who would do that 😮. Must have been accidental, surely.

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