2 reasons why I couldn’t peaktrans my sister

Xioaxiong, you could try telling your DH's friends that they are lovely people too but you wouldn't fancy having to get undressed with them and how would they like their daughters getting undressed in front of your DH? It's about a lot more than rapiness; it's about dignity and respect and boundaries. It' shocking that more people don't seem to get that.

If you're talking about male-bodied* rapists in women's prisons what's the tipping point for "no-deal" to become "big deal"? Would one or two be OK and once you hit three the risk is too high?

Either someone is willing to say that male-bodied rapists who identify as transwomen should be in women's prisons or they're acknowledging that transwomen are not women.

• ie bepenised

Xiaoxiong I suppose it's easy to say it's 'no big deal' when it's not your rights at stake and you have more to gain from the changes than to lose.

There are 100s of examples now about why standing up for women's rights is so necessary, from basic safeguarding (pooh poohing the penis threat after #metoo #WhyIdidnotreport and #webelieveher is SO radical eh!) to sports, prisons, hospital wards and All Women Shortlists. Women should not have to make room for men, no matter how oppressed these men feel they are, in spaces they have had to fight for.

Take heart from today's news from Cambridge, that legally the council have to follow the Equalities Act. Trans rights cannot take precedence over women's rights, that would be unequal rights.

I'm having trouble with DH and quite a few friends as well, all very left-liberal-inclusion in their outlook (as am I!). Their argument is that there are so few trans people out there that what's the big deal, the likelihood that you will ever come across one is vanishingly small, they're not going to take over/take space away from women and that basically I've become this massive obsessed conspiracy theorist.

There was even a passing reference to pedo-scares in the 1990s and people who saw pedophiles round every corner which really infuriated me, and then they were angry that I supposedly saw everyone with a penis as a threat and asked if I saw them as a threat - I cut the conversation off there.

There was a lot of stuff about trans people having been the most marginalised group in history as well and that we had an obligation of inclusion. I think that narrative has certainly taken hold.

Huff post sorry

Buzzfeed today:

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/labour-activists-join-feminists-to-oppose-self-id-policy-change_uk_5baaaf19e4b0f101d383a4ef/?__twitter_impression=true

heresyandwitchcraft that Magdalane Burns video is cracking. Just love how she pulls it all apart #coolcat

MN peak transed me. I never realised how bad and awful things were until I came across threads like this. Once again women are being marginalised on the say so of men.

What peak transed me was the fact that 99% of the transwomen I have met over the past five years have been young men with clear personality disorders and substance abuse problems who rapidly detransitioned again after a month or two. Female oppression is not something you can take a fucking holiday in. I’m not letting random male tourists into female spaces for a quick nose around before they go back to being cis men again once the novelty wears off.

Many of the TW I know who detransitioned did a total 180 and became MRAs. They were never women, they were just young men with fucked up ideas about masculinity (in both incarnations). They need to grow the fuck up.

Then she got all ooh now you’re being mean you’re a horrible person and blocked me.

It doesn't sound like you did a bad job at all. If she thought she was winning the argument, she would have continued or she would have blocked you from the outset. What made her run away is the realisation of her own cognitive dissonance and the discomfort and unease that caused her. You planted a seed.

Show her the phalloplasty arm scars - see what is being done to troubled women in this lunatic Orwellian world

Eresh
I probably did a bad job actually, I always think of the perfect come back hours later.
I pointed out the ridiculousness of her comments. I pointed out that pervy men don’t come with the neon sign above their head advertising the fact, so we don’t know who they are until it’s too late. Then I reflected her words back to her, that she thinks we should be inclusive to any males who want to use the female facilities, and that women who don’t like it should go elsewhere. Then I asked her how this is in any way inclusive. Then she got all ooh now you’re being mean you’re a horrible person and blocked me. Not quite sure why she did that. I’ve never met her in my life and hope never to do so. Oh well, if it made her feel better.
She really is immensely thick.

And oh god yes DEFINITELY bunch. Lily madigan too I think, highlighting the fact that she became women’s officer after identifying as a woman for two years or so - and still looking totally male and not having had any treatment of any kind

Haven’t RTFT so sorry if others have suggested these but here are some cases to highlight:

Hannah mouncey the Australian trans footballer - show her the pics of this vast beast competing against tiny women

Andraya Yarwood - the male teenager who has not undergone transition at all yet is allowed to compete against teen girls in races just because of identity. Find the article about how two of the top three places in the races she competes in were taken by “trans girls” - in this case males who have not undergone treatment

Danielle Muscato

Jess who got her dick out at her desk

Stay away from the Aimee/GP stuff - too convoluted

Bunce did a good job peak transing the upper middle chateriti I think

Bunce came up in conversation today at work. The general response is confusion - and “are we allowed to say that makes no sense?!”

Glinner?

I had a row on Facebook today.

Agree you can't argue with stupid, but what did you reply? Paraphrasing.

I second the Jonny Best recommendation. He is really speaking up for women and has written some fabulous pieces.

Connor Kelly has also produced excellent work, full of empathy and so well-explained:
medium.com/@connorskellymusic/what-happened-to-our-movement-a1239d7a11d5

This is good. Written by Jonothan Best long time LGBT campaigner and his recent experience with trans politics.

medium.com/@JonnnyBest/the-story-of-my-first-brush-with-trans-activism-and-what-i-learned-3ef13e31fd37

I'm having the same conversation with a colleague and a gay family member. They can't get over the historic Stonewall=good association. (Which obviously used to be correct).

I seem to remember an article (possibly by a lesbian or a gay man ) which explained why the accusation that gender critical perspective is like the old gay conversion therapy is a completely false comparison. Can anyone help me find the link?

I had a row on Facebook today. My friend posted that she didn’t want men in women’s spaces, and when she’d been in a unisex toilet on Sunday a man d had touched her.
Then this young pink haired woman came on and said, sorry for you, but you can’t keep trans people out because of pervy men. Everyone should be inclusive and allow people to use the toilets of the sex with which they identify, and if women are uncomfortable they should go elsewhere, and something about preventative discrimination being bad, or something.
You can’t argue with stupid

I had a chat with my older sister last week about the issues we discuss on here on a daily basis. It was much harder than I imagined it would be. She’s a woman in her 50s, ex teacher and v rational. The 2 stumbling blocks, that I struggled to refute were, her argument that, if it’s such a big deal as I was making it out to be, why wasn’t it being reported in The Guardian, the BBC, R4, Women’s Hour etc ( the main places where she gets her news information).

Great question. It is because all of these sources are very biased on this topic IMO. This has been one of the most frustrating things for me, and I am beginning to think it is due to their significant ideological investment in trans activism (an easy way to virtue signal, someone said) and the backlash from TRAs.
So illustrate it with a specific case.
Look at the crimes of Gary Dean Marie aka Marie Dean, a dangerous offender:
www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4390490.Cross_dressing_Burnley_and_Padiham_burglar_jailed_indefinitely/

Ask why the Observer (and Pink News) was almost championing for this dangerous male to be moved into a place full of vulnerable women? ( www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/27/marie-dean-trans-prisoner-male-prison-hunger-strike ). They actually had to be corrected to add in Gary/Marie's sordid past.... ( www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/01/marie-dean-story-shows-there-s-no-simple-answer-how-we-treat-transgender )

The other sticking point was her assumption that trans women were men who had had a sex change operation, AKA old school transsexuals. She was perfectly ok with them being regarded as women. However she just couldn’t believe that men who are actually what would have been considered transvestites were now claiming to be women. It really brought it home to me what we are up against when I think a majority of the unsuspecting public may well think like this.

Genuinely, have her look at the Stonewall website.

Start with Stonewall's glossary of terms.

Trans
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.
www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#t

You can ask her about why crossdressers are now trans?

Then look at the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group page. www.stonewall.org.uk/trans-advisory-group

Perhaps talk through Aimee Challenor and what happened with David Challenor. Note Alex Drummond. Watch the video of Magdalen Berns taking down Stonewall. Ask just how wide she thinks the "bandwidth of woman" should be:

This is the most respected LGBTQ+ organization in the UK. Let her go right to the source.

Lily Maynard is a strong voice in this:

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2017/12/16/i-know-whos-going-to-be-on-the-wrong-side-of-history-and-it-isnt-me/

The rape centre case:

www.feministcurrent.com/2012/05/14/rape-relief-v-nixon-transphobia-and-the-value-of-women-only-space-an-interview-with-lee-lakeman/ (I initially was going to use a wikipedia link but then remembered that is a dodgy source when it comes to trans issues.)

An academic viewpoint:

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Personal experience of detransition (which never happens):

4thwavenow.com/2016/04/27/shrinking-to-survive-a-former-trans-man-reports-on-life-inside-queer-youth-culture/

Needs no introduction:

www.sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

How to determine that a pre-verbal child is trans:

vimeo.com/185149379

Terf is a slur. That's jaw-dropping for a newbie.