Girlguiding Issue coming up Good Morning Britain

Getitnow my daughter's best friend is a trans boy. He does activities together with the boys but for his comfort and that of the others he gets changed and on trips sleeps separately.

Just as my daughter when she was the only girl in her scouts pack had to sleep in a tent on her own and change there.

My daughter has always done 'boy heavy' activities, often as the only girl. As such I have no issue with her sharing activities with the opposite sex. BUT while I have no belief that trans children are devient as someone who's bi teen has been involved heavily in a relationship with a girl this year which I have no doubt would have gone further if they had slept over anywhere I would be concerned about teens being teens and experimenting.

This is why people are hesitant to voice their opinion, for fear of being labelled the above.

Honestly, the words have long since lost any meaning, they might as well call you an oompaloompa.

No, we really don't need to get bogged down in a whole lot of wondering about the wonderful complexities of trauma and as much other setting off hares as possible; basic common sense in safeguarding based on a steady stream of serious case reviews locating loopholes has done just fine.

We don't put male bodied and female bodied people together to change, shower, dress, toilet, sleep or receive any form of intimate care.

Child to child assaults are a fact, girls as young as five have been raped in their primary schools by other children, and the psychology of the individual cases is irrelevant. It's why we don't increase the risk by putting girls in vulnerable positions out of sight and supervision of adults. Like being undressed or asleep. These safeguarding rules are based on sex, not on gender. Someone's gender preferences does not change their sex.

The Catholic church and Jimmy Saville are two massive reasons why making it easy for sex offenders to identify into positions of trust is a problem and gender identity cannot be allowed to be a white card out of those checks, balances and standard regulations. The right to safety and the law of safeguarding comes before the individual's right to identity. When there are mixed sex organisations where trans workers would be easily able to participate without issue, the question has to be asked, will every male bodied person wish to be a leader of an exclusively girl organisation for reasons prioritising the girls' interests?

But bottom line here: no means no, not no if you can refute every argument I can throw and prove beyond the faintest shadow of a doubt. Standard safeguarding says no. End of. No exemptions.

Girls have the right to be in girl only spaces away from male bodied people, irrespective of how male bodied people feel about that, and to say no to showering, changing and sleeping with male bodied people. So do their parents. End of. No exemptions.

Yes Fermats.

It needs to be pointed out to those yelling transphobic that it's the girls not the transgirls carrying all the risk here.

Listening to some people you would think it was the other way around.

Good grief my head hurts with this. Yes, I'm concerned about perverts using loopholes.

But why do these utter, utter fools ignore the universally acknowledged fact that adolescents are hugely sexually charged and likely to indulge that given the opportunity? Frankly I'm astonished that there hasn't been a lot of cases of pregnancy in various trans youth groups with this level of naiveté. Still, I suppose those poor kids have already been plyed with meds to squash their development.

Is there any confirmation of the EHRC's position other than Caroline tweet?

I have contacted girl guides to ask them to confirm whether they are now a mixed sex organisation.

I've been saying that for ages Ova - quite aside from the risk of sexual assault, the much bigger risk comes from a transgirl impregnating their "lesbian" girlfriend during consensual teenage-hormone fuelled fumbling around.

The biggest concern aside from the potential for abuse is teenage kids of either sex just being teenage kids. Many young transgirls have girlfriends not boyfriends (see LM).

The idea that experimentation wouldn't happen just because of identity is ridiculous and the inevitable 'but lesbian camp activity' is not a gotcha argument because there is no risk of pregnancy and that is one of the main purposes of segregation.

Same with boarding schools or any other overnight spaces involving minors.

ihaventgottime happy to. They’ve said I’ll get something within 5 days (though I doubt it’ll be substantive).

Caroline farrow and the co hosts at Good Morning did well to get the following across:

Trans girls still have a male body

They may or may not be on puberty blockers which chemically castrate children

Parents would not be informed about important safeguarding so GG is not a safe organisation for girls.

The policy would allow Girls and boys with a fully functioning male body in the same tents together. The Guide leader could be male and you would no informed of this.

Some good points mentioned by Caroline

1. If you have a school trip then you segregate the sexes because one sex can impregnate another.

1. It does not necessarily have to be rape and abuse involved but children are separated by sex to reduce likilhood on impregnating and sexual abuse and to ensure safety of children and safeguarding.

1. The Policy was buried on the GG website

1. Piers brings up a male rapist in a female prison environment and suddenly susie green want to move away from that - it is nothing to do with GG, self identification is nothing to do with GG.

1. Surely self identification is entirely relevant here - especially if we are talking about boy or young male adults who identify as a girl and want to move into girl only spaces then what we are talking about is self identification????

1. Susie Green to Piers:

"Essentially because you have a penis we should be worried what you are going to do with it.”

At this point I am thinking that is it susie, you have got it now - a man or boy with a penis can rape a child, a penis can impregnate a female - you got it there Susie that is why a rapist in a female prison is important it doesn’t matter that it is only one case Susie and your attempt to minimise it by saying that was only one case or words to that effect were disgusting.

According to Susie “Trans girls are girls” - Susie believes trans girls can already go in girl spaces - is this true? As susie green spouted off already in TV can trans girls (males and boys) go into sex segregated spaces on school trips and parents not be informed ? Surely that is a safeguarding issue.

I thought it was an ok exchange as it will be evident to any caring parent that the trans agenda does not care and in fact is dangerous to the well being and safeguarding of children.

I certainly think GG will see a membership dip as no sane parent could really take he risk of their child being within an organisation that does not support and safeguard children.

this guy

they exist, make no mistake
they will go to great lengths to abuse children
saying your name is fiona and joining the local guides is not a great length tbh

This is why people are hesitant to voice their opinion, for fear of being labelled the above.

It's basically become meaningless. Everything is "transphobic". They use it to everyone about every comment that isn't 100% in favour of males trampling over women's rights. Don't take it personally.

Mimmymum is straight up lying.

I thought that was probably the case.

Or an older child who is not trans but fancies bunking in with teh girls no questions asked.

Some kids are pervy weirdos with few friends at youngish ages...

That young man who volunteered fro charities overseas and sexually abused 100s of children springs to mind, he'd been at it since he was pretty young like 17 or something.

So far on twitter I've been called transphobic and a bigot

This is why people are hesitant to voice their opinion, for fear of being labelled the above.

I was also told a trans child would never harm my child. Because that person clearly knows every trans child

It also has conseuqences for ALL orgs and places that have a "TWAW TGAG no safeguarding issues" policy.

Phew well between work meetings that took a hell of a long time to read.

the news that the EHRC have informed GG that they need to make it clear they are now mixed sex is huge news,

wtf are they going to do? it is their entire raison d'etre

there have been threads on here since god knows when and also people telling them that there is NO basis in law for a single GENDER orgainsation

It is good that they are being made to be clear what they are about now (boys are best and more important than girls)

But, they have, what, destroyed the biggest uk charity working for women and girls in teh UK in the space of what, 2 years?

Is this a matter for pride and cheer? What are they thinking?

Would be great to see / understand this notificaiton from EHRC aside from a single tweet. What the fuck are GG going to say to this?

Chocolala I'd be interested to know what they said, if you feel happy to share the response if when you get one?

I feel sad for the fact that we've lost a protected and cherished space for girls who want and need that.

Especially with the important discussions they do create in a good unit around self esteem, personal care and sexual health, discrimination, confidence, abuse and everything. It's all subtly changed in a mixed sex environment.

Re: Shelter

If anyone is on Twitter, Joe Halewood would be someone who could clarify this matter.

twitter.com/SpeyeJoe

speyejoe2.wordpress.com

Maybe JF is campaigning to change the uniform? Out with the polyester jumper, in with the rubber bondage?

RE SHELTER

The LAW says this www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/68/part/X/crossheading/definition-of-overcrowding

"The room standard.
(1)The room standard is contravened when the number of persons sleeping in a dwelling and the number of rooms available as sleeping accommodation is such that two persons of opposite sexes who are not living together as husband and wife must sleep in the same room.

SHELTER DESCRIBES THE LAW LIKE THIS england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

"1. Room standard
This method is called the room standard. It looks at the number and gender of people who sleep in the same room. Children under the age of 10 are not counted.

A room is considered anywhere you could sleep in, not just bedrooms. It could include a living room, study or dining room.

Your home is overcrowded by law if two people of different genders have no option but to sleep in the same room. This doesn't apply to couples."

So shelter have misrepresented the law.

And so sad to see the fuckers have been at the woodcraft folk as well. This was always mixed sex though so hopefully their guidance on mixed sex away trips is more in line with scouts than guides.

Maybe Jane Fae is trying to persuade Girl Guides to introduce an extreme porn badge.

UPDATE:

I’ve emailed GG to ask what the hell is going on, and for clarification as to the single/mixed sex point. And to ask why their policies are so far out of step with every other mixed sex organisation.

I certainly won't be offering services as a volunteer though.. I’ll keep on for now, but this has left a really bad impression for me, and given they seem to be ignoring basic safeguarding practice, that could change. I’ll have a watching brief I think.

Catching up on thread

"Jane said in 2017 that he had spoken to the Guides twitter.com/JaneFae/status/941108179647320064"

I take it all back. Looks like Jane Fae Extreme Porn Legalisation Advicate and one who has um interesting things to say about women being killed as a result of DV and who thinks that 16/17yo should be avaialbel in porn (including extreme porn?) WAS cosulted by GG when forming their policy around making sure girl guides who go on camps might be confronted with unexpected dick in their sleeping and showering areas, with no warning (or for their parents) and given that they are presented with it as a fait accompli and girls who don't like it are like RACISTS then there's fuck all they can do about it either.

Good glad we've got that straight.

Jane Fae has said that they spoke to GG after teh policy was changed

Which is a bit of a sleight of hand

Because if (and looks for sure that they are) GG are consulting with Jane Fae then it needs to be on SOMETHING doesn't it, and presumably (??) it's not why extreme porn should be legal, so must be around GG and trans "rights". OBVIOUSLY.