Girlguiding Issue coming up Good Morning Britain

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

If Ruth Hunt's influence has led to Shelter giving innacurate housing advice to those experiencing homelessnes, this deserves challenging.

Furthermore, if one considers the point of the overcrowding legislation relating to single space space for children over 10 years, this is really really concerning.

It exists for profound reasons!

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

Elite social closure and incestuous chumocracy has taken over the entire corporate third sector. Withdraw support and re-allocate to small local charities who actually have some idea about the needs of their service users and try to meet them.

I completely disagree with Kate Hoey on Brexit.

Brexit-voting women are women!

I am. talking about children who abuse children not adults, adults do indeed have a number of factors infulanceing there behaviours.

I know it's going back a while, but this is such an odd derailment.

We are not talking about the reasons that abuse occurs. We are talking about safeguarding and dignity of girls.

I question any adult, male or female of any gender that wants to remove safeguarding and dignity of girls.

It is noteworthy that Shelter's guidelines have substituted the word 'gender' for 'sex' contrary to the legislation which could have implications:

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

Thank you hackmum It's frustrating at times isn't it.

The Good Morning Britain Twitter thread about this was quite heartening in many ways because most people who have given the issues no thought at all can see immediately that it's asking for trouble to allow mixed-sex sleeping accommodation for teenagers, especially when we are all busy pretending that boys can actually BE girls and their girl's penis definitely won't be doing any impregnating.

Right about now, is Sophie Walker of WEP congratulating herself for her fence-sitting or quietly regretting that this would be a fabulous opportunity to show leadership, represent women and children, and she's having to pass it up?

LAst Train East

Brilliantly put!

Someone on Twitter has made a very good point that there are rules (when it comes to social housing at least) regarding boys and girls sharing bedrooms at home

It is also part of housing legislation. In assessing possible overcrowding:
Section 325 of the Housing Act 1985 provides that there is
overcrowding wherever there are so many people in a house that any
two or more of those persons, being ten or more years old, and of
opposite sexes, not being persons living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room.
For these purposes, children under ten may be disregarded and a room means any room normally used as either a bedroom or a living room. A kitchen can be a living room provided it is big enough to accommodate a bed.
When interpreting this definition, a local authority looks at how the
sleeping arrangements within the premises could be organised, rather than how they are organised.

Thus, a couple, with two children of opposite sexes and aged ten years or more, with two living rooms (e.g. bedrooms), may not be statutorily overcrowded because the couple could occupy separate rooms, with one each of the children (of the appropriate sex) .
There is no limit on the number of people of the same sex who can live in the same room under section 325 although there may be a
contravention of the space standard"
House of Commons BRIEFING PAPER
Number 1013, 21 September 2018
Overcrowded housing
(England)

It is noteworthy that Shelter's guidelines have substituted the word 'gender' for 'sex' contrary to the legislation which could have implications:
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

I am not surprised that the Woodcraft Folk are ahead of the game. but they like other organsations will be targeted from time to time, as in the example I quoted, or perhaps David Challenor in gymnastics and scouts. People interested in children, are, well, interested in children.

Out of interest who does the DBS and other checks for Girl Guides. Sports clubs do it at club level, but, in my experience at least, with strong encouragement/support from the National Organisation and Sports Development Officers in Local Authorities. And my understanding was that a lot of this was driven by insurance concerns, as well as, obviously, concern for children. If a Challenor gets in and runs amok, and all the safeguarding boxes have not been ticked, someone is responsible.

all girls have a right to privacy and dignity and you don't see trans girls as girls others do

This is not about how anyone sees anything, but about material reality, Bespin.

LastTrainEast

Yes!

I completely disagree with Kate Hoey on Brexit.
I completely agree with her on this.
It's not unusual to agree with people on some issues and disagree with them on others.

Will someone who thinks that girls should be required to undress etc in front of boys please explain why changing rooms exist at all. Shouldn't girls just undress wherever they happen to be in front of all passers-by?

We used to change in the classroom when I was 4-5 so what would be wrong with a 16yo girl doing the same thing? Surely you don't think all their classmates and male teachers are rapists?

It would make things easier at home for dad too (and male visitors) if the bathroom door was never closed when a teenage daughter was taking a bath.

If that doesn't sound like a good idea then you need to rethink your original position.

Many men abuse because they can

And being allowed free access to women and girls is a gift to such men, isn't it?

Oooh! I can paragraph again!

My support of Kate Hoey was in response to the comment on p6 from Ihaventgottimeforthis:

^I absolutely can't bear Kate Hoey, I don't think she will do any favours in this debate in terms of winning over the majority.
She's one of Nigel Farage's cheerleaders and in my opinion is a disgrace as a Labour MP. I don't think she has either intelligence or integrity.^

Fae is likely to be very rattled by Lisa Muggeridge's recent video. A discredited 'expert' seeing opportunities (financial and self-promotional) disappearing before their eyes.

@bespin although trauma plays a part in some cases, its not the case for all. Rather than throw out glib excuses, here's a published paper from the US criminal justice programme. They recorded 31% percent of offenders having experienced childhood abuse. So less than half. Many men abuse because they can, and many have been abused and not perpetuated that violence on. www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=72986

Cheers Gulag

Am not very used to Twitter!

That's a lie - isn''t it?

Yes. It's illegal not to have sex segregated toilets in schools. Because...

I am. talking about children who abuse children

...those children who abuse children are overwhelmingly boys who abuse girls.

VickyEadie - Yes, it's a lie!

Timelady, who is assuming that Kate Hoey's input is negative.

What is happening is that an odd bunch of people have been willing to stick their heads above the parapet (Richard Littlejohn, Sarah Vine, Kate Hoey, David Davis MP etc along with left leaning Radfems and some sensible GG people), perhaps because they are willing to say what they think and have a history of doing so. This issue is not about right wing or left wing, but about common sennse, and there is every reason to belive that 80% of the population or more, agree. It is babysteps. First the Mail and Spectator cover it, then the Times. Who knows we may yet get some sensible reporting from the BBC and Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/30/labour-kate-hoey-deselect-vauxhall-mp-independent-thinker-expel

Kate Hoey is a former games teacher, and has a strong sports policy background. She was a former Sports Minister. She will be speaking up with personal views, knowledge and experience. People across the political spectrum wil take note. Another babystep but a helpful one.

Apples: That's a nice summary of the argument. And it's all an attempt to obfuscate something quite simple, which is that teenage boys shouldn't be allowed to share a tent - or shower facilities, or changing rooms - with teenage girls.

It is the young person’s legal right to use the toilets of their choice That's a lie - isn''t it?

A PP mentioned Woodcraft Folk. If your child attends, worth a look at their Transgender Inclusion Statement which contains the Genderbread Person diagram, phrases like 'assigned sex at birth' etc etc and includes for example

• It is the young person’s legal right to use the toilets of their choice
• Always be led by the preferences of the young person, around which facilities they feel most comfortable and safe using.

Further info at the back of the doc directs people to:
Gender Trust
NHS Live Well
GIRES: Gender Identity Research and Education Society
Mermaids
Gendered Intelligence:
Trans Media watch:
Allsorts Youth: Brighton based youth project
Action for Trans Health: