Writing workshop for women and what happens...

No, because they aren't men, are they? Haven't you read the memo? If they think they're a woman, they ARE a woman. And that means they can do whatever women can do, eg attend a women-only class. Even though they might have only decided they were a woman yesterday.

Hollow talk, I am confused ( nothing unusual there) . Surely it is a against the law to offer something to women and some men but not all men? because gender identity is not a protected characteristic and therefore is not grounds for differential Treatment?

But Mslexia allow transwomen to enter their competitions, @PenguinRoar, based purely on self-identification.

Has anyone thought of contacting Mslexia for their thoughts on this? As the leading publication for women’s writing, I hope they have a view... FWIW, having been to many, and hosted many writers’ workshops, my experience is that it’s 50/50 male and female overall. I have never seen stereotypical trends for subjects from male or female. In contrast to the PP recently, the gruesome crime/thriller courses were more women than men, and food writing more men than women...

This is the thing, @AssassinatedBeauty. It's only by living a woman's life that you understand women's issues completely. I always think that if a transwoman really thought like a woman, they'd know that women wouldn't want them there at events like that.

Cross post with OP. My sympathy. Is there scope in future workshops for more clearly defined rules, so if someone does turn up and try to pull a stunt like this they can be very firmly reminded of the rules about sharing your work (rather than waiting to the end to "announce" your genius to the group), about it being a safe, supportive environment. I.e. turn it round and make it about the interloper's specific behaviours being against the rules.

"he snapped his fingers in mock appreciation" - what a total prick. Why should women have to put up with such posturing nonsense like this? Grim.

The last writing workshop I was on was in fact a mixed workshop. Very interesting. No-one of either sex wrote about lego (interestingly, I think the script-writers for the very successful, and ultimately slightly tedious lego movie franchise are male, but that's by the by). I was lucky in that this was a group of civilised people interested in learning from the group leader, who was a well-known local poet. I learned a lot from it. The fact that this was a civilised group doesn't mean I don't recognise the behaviour OP describes - I've experienced it myself in a number of contexts.

Women on their own tend to write about domestic life. Men, when they've finished talking, often read violent work. A blessed relief after nine pages of counting the cracks on the ceiling during sex and fishing bits of lego out of the back of the sofa. In my experience the men tend to harp tediously on about the romantic and sexual experiences of their youth while the women write about art, life, death, language, and yes, very interestingly about motherhood.

This is why so many lesbian groups have gone underground and meet privately, and aren't advertised anywhere. Which is sad for young and newly out lesbians who can these days only find male inclusive groups which are inevitably centred around and dominated by those males.

And there are, to my knowledge, few to no men only workshops.. If men wanted them, they’d exist. Believe me!

The second you add "for women" onto something these days it's like a magnet. You could market a workshop as "advanced toenail clipping for women only" with some kind of blurb about it being nail clipping in a supportive female space... and there would be at least one rocking up demanding to be included - just to stop you having nicely clipped toenails and a chinwag.

I'm sure I've seen an explanation of why it's fine to have transwomen only activities and spaces, but not ok for women to have women only activities and spaces. Basically the whole privilege/disadvantage/ you owe it to us stuff. It's like it's fine for a transwoman to pick biologically female only sexual partners but not for lesbian women to pick female only sexual partners. What will happen in effect is people will give up on holding women only events, what will be the point? And women will lose those opportunities and freedoms. And there will be people behind this ideology smugly saying 'Good.'.

Pm'd you Potato

Men are perfectly at liberty to organise men only workshops, it's not the responsibility of women to provide for them.

What would happen if women turned up at a transwoman event? They can't turn them away on account of biology, can they? Biology is just a 'social construct'.

Also nine times out of ten there aren't enough women to make the numbers up and it's thrown open. Men looking for workshops will know this. And there are, to my knowledge, few to no men only workshops.

fermat Again, confirmation you haven't been in writing workshops! Look, I've no doubt that what you're describing is a terrible problem. But it is the case that men are often just...a problem...in workshops, even when they're not dressed as women. Partly because there aren't enough men going to workshops to give them a habitat, as it were. Personally, I'd always choose a mixed workshop though. Women on their own tend to write about domestic life. Men, when they've finished talking, often read violent work. A blessed relief after nine pages of counting the cracks on the ceiling during sex and fishing bits of lego out of the back of the sofa.

But then arty men have always been super-confident around women. There's a type that feels both included and superior.

I know a lot about how men behave in terms of dick-swinging, and from OP's description, it's pretty clear that dick-swinging was what this guy was all about. "Didn't notice the 'for women' bit" my arse - he did read it and felt like crashing. I'd put money on it.

Arty men have been erroneously turning up at women's writing workshops since long before transwomen were a thing, believe me! And they are often overly talkative...as I know to my cost...

I hate the term "safe space". Some women never feel safe. (Though safer when it's women only.)

I can't bear this. Women have fewer rights than they've ever had. At least prior to this they had the freedom to be together in peace.