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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ffs peak trans again!

35 replies

Ffsnosexallowed · 24/09/2018 17:39

I've just seen a draft document for public sector in Scotland which is proposing common definitions for the Equality information we collect about employees. They are suggesting we do away with "sex" as a category and instead are to collect information re what gender we identify as. I am so angry! It's ridiculous, I've commented that sex is the legally protected characteristic not gender identity. But grrrrrrrr!

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WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 25/09/2018 14:21

James Morton’s fingerprints all over this, I’ll bet.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 25/09/2018 11:18

"How they clearly have never understood women’s rights as human rights, but privileges bestowed on us by our betters and who can take them away at the stroke of a pen."

YYYYYYYYYYY

So much yes.

This is sadly the situaiton for women all over the world. They still see it as doing us a favour by not treating us as chattel, "letting" us vote work etc.

You can see this in govt policy as well, where female workforce is mobilised when needed and chucked out when not. UK austerity was an example of this.

Fearandsurprise · 25/09/2018 08:27

But aren't there like elventy billion different genders and people identify as multiple so how does that fit in with the forms and databases? Surely it's violence to make people choose just male, female, other?

This

Lush kindly described some of them… uk.lush.com/article/lets-talk-about-gender

FloralCup · 24/09/2018 23:08

From the Scottish guidance on asking questions about gender (linked above):
The Equality Act 2010 protects people from discrimination because of gender.
Why are they fucking around using the word gender when they should be using sex.

RunningWild12 · 24/09/2018 22:57

Scotland is a mess. Parliament has redefined female fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/ The govt funds women’s and lgbt orgs and they create policy (Trans Alliance Scotland and the Scottish Prison Service) and guidelines (LGBT Youth Scotland for schools). Women’s orgs in receipt of govt funding all accept men identifying as women as service users and some as staff and volunteers. This has all been achieved by behind closed door meetings with lgbt groups and allies with no opportunity for public debate. I have come to despise the political system and elected members here as I have seen how easily they fall prey to the latest lobby group to win woke points. How they clearly have never understood women’s rights as human rights, but privileges bestowed on us by our betters and who can take them away at the stroke of a pen. As they’ve decided to deny reality, and redefine woman and female to be whatever a man tells us it is. Contemptible.

DuckingGoodPJs · 24/09/2018 22:39

None of this is a side-effect of the introduction of 'gender', but the exact and intended purpose of it.

BeUpStanding · 24/09/2018 19:12

Isn't Kings College London doing government funded research on the impact of removing sex as a category in various official records? Let me go digging...

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 19:01

AND IN ADDITION they already believe and use male and female to relate to internal gender feelings and NOT to bio sex. Wow double fuck.

Charliethefeminist · 24/09/2018 19:00

Thank you

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 19:00

So the Scottish government and all peripherals have been aiming NOT to know what the sex splits of anything are, for eqaulties purposes, since 2012. They accidentally have mainly been finding out sex by acident as most people think that it is askiing for sex. It isn't, it's asking whether you "feel like" a woman or a man. Wow fuck.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 18:58

Sorry Gang it's a done deal in scotland since 2012: www.gov.scot/Resource/0039/00393543.pdf... "Recommended Question
The recommended question for collecting information on gender is:
Are you male or female?
Male
Female
Developing a question on gender identity The recommended question on gender does not include an option for people who have a fluid gender identity and therefore would not select either the male or female option. " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SO they already mean gender when they ask for gender >> internal gender feels >> whetehr the people who are answering the question realise it or not.

olderthanyouthink · 24/09/2018 18:56

But aren't there like elventy billion different genders and people identify as multiple so how does that fit in with the forms and databases? Surely it's violence to make people choose just male, female, other?

Ffs peak trans again!
NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 18:53

Most people when they read gender think it is asking for sex. IF you want to know gender it is best to collect sex as well 1. becasue it's sex that matters for most equalities stuff as is a protected characteristic and 2. so that people see that it is a different question (and should have explanation). My understanding is that soctland want to move away from any interest in sex for anything and towards stats based only on what poeple feel in their heads, is that right? That is fucking stupid and against current equaltities laws (which are on the hit list bigtime but not changed yet).

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 18:51

www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Equality/Equalities/EqualFramework/GatherEvidence/Challenges "Collecting regular and consistent information broken down by equality characteristics has been a challenge, even at a national level, in Scotland for a number of years. Reliable data on gender and age is available to local level for a wide range of variables. " uH-HUH

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 18:48

www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Equality/Equalities/EqualFramework/GatherEvidence/CollectEqualInfo current scots guidance on collecting equalities info says to collect gender

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 18:45

OK so councils all over the UK have unilaterally removed the legally protected characteristic of sex and replaced it with gender. To be fair some changed it when challenged. I hate to break it to you all but the gender pay thing is already based on gender. (Although if they are asking companies then presumably random self ID on the day you fill the form in is less likely to happen as it will come from payroll). But still. Gender is irrelevant to the pay gap which is there becasue of bio sex. IF they must know gender then they need to collect sex and gender. Both. ONLY collecting gender will render all stats meaningless. People will tick different boxes on different days. The effect that has already been seen in crime stats (self ID) will start to come through. Basically it's a big fuck you to women and girls. They have no interest in monitoring us as a group, to see if we are accessing services, experiencing more poverty, crime etc and so on. Not interested.

Charliethefeminist · 24/09/2018 18:39

This is exceptionally serious.

Charliethefeminist · 24/09/2018 18:38

Thank you.

BetsyM00 · 24/09/2018 18:32

All council jobs in Scotland are advertised through myjobscotland.gov.uk, which lists gender as a protected characteristic. The Equal Opportunities form which accompanies each job application does not monitor sex, but rather gender, see the screenshot.

So no council in Scotland collects the basic information to monitor their compliance with the Equality Act. They have no way of knowing if the job application process unfairly discriminates against women.

I've emailed everyone about this, council say they have no power to change the centralised service, myjobscotland say they take their instructions from the councils....

Ffs peak trans again!
loveyouradvice · 24/09/2018 18:31

Yup re equal pay etc....They'll just report men identifying as women AS women - as they seem to do with crime stats at the moment - the reason why 6 rapes were committed by women last year

Charliethefeminist · 24/09/2018 18:29

Is Scotland not bound by the Equality Act? Would this not be in breach?

Ffsnosexallowed · 24/09/2018 18:24

I don't think it's public yet. I'be fit a couple of ways to challenge it - but it's ridiculous that folk have to put their heads above the parapet to challenge this sort of thing. The world has officially gone mad.

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GulagMilkMonitor · 24/09/2018 18:14

This will be incredibly detrimental to women’s services, especially in regards health services.

Charliethefeminist · 24/09/2018 18:07

Hi, is this a public document?

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