Cowardice

If only there were a women's party - one that was concerned with issues of equality that might show some leadership around now...That had some female celebrities prominent in LGB circles...

If only the women's party that does exist hadn't thrown out a member for the appearance of impropriety on this issue following no recognisable due process. And just dedicated themselves to there being no 'right side' on this issue.

I posted about this on the Jk Rowling thread. She has the money and the power and freedom that brings to do pretty much what she wants and who can stop her.
She should come out.
I'm at the other end of the spectrum, no money, job but not a career, I can say what I like and nobody can stop me.
My boss won't sack me for having opinions, and I could give less of a shit if other parents shun me at the school gates.
I've already been doxxed on Facebook so I'm feeling pretty free to do and say as I please.
I'm going stickering later.

Harriet Harman's another. I've never heard her say a word about any of this but I can't believe she's swallowed it. She's 68 so I doubt she's worried about being deselected.

As a self employed woman she probably has taken a huge hit financially over this, although hopefully she had enough squirrelled to cushion the blow.

No one expects a single average wage earner with dependents to risk the food in their kids mouths, but yes, someone like JK, who will never have any financial worries again, and can influence a whole generation, and all the politicians that claim to be feminist whilst unravelling women’s protections in law? They need a good hard look at themselves.

JK can rendeem herself with a book for girls, actual girls, full of kick ass, non feminine characters, aimed at our current generation of ROGD girls and enby deniers, but she better hurry up with it.

Helen Joyce of the economist (who is just fantastic on this issue) tweeted this in response to Julie Bindel's post. I think she is on to something ….

"Look, if you're one of the people who let Julie know privately that you agreed re trans-lobby bullying - drop her a note giving her permission to put you all in touch. Then SPEAK OUT TOGETHER. Strength in numbers, ordinary people will sit up and listen and WHERE'S YOUR COURAGE?"
and then a bit later
"Totally agree that parents in school yards should not be the front line. But some of the people Julie's talking about are activists in LGBT circles who are horrified at the way things are unfolding, but afraid of getting attacked as she has."

We can all do our small bit as people have said up thread - keeping anonymous if necessary. Using our own spheres of influence where we can. No coordinated as such. But if a number of key people who already have a name could 'come out' together, it would ripple outwards.

What the f* happened?

Economic uncertainity and increasing lack of safety net.

Its that simple.

However if you are in a position where you have nothing left to lose then you might speak out. But you won't have power when you do it.

It has to be led by women with power. But those women are the ones most bothered about their political careers.

Aren't they Stella...

I think she's attacking hypocrisy and abuse of power. I would take a punt on Jess Phillips being another target - they've probably worked together.

That's not to say a lot of us couldn't do more too - and that includes me.

Agree, it is the #metoo that doesn't come. Nic from FPFW said the government is only going to ask us once, so go fill the GRA consultation.

I'm as fearful as the next but my voice is made stronger by Julie, Datum, Posie, Magdalena, Lionel, Stephanie and so many others in this and on parents forums.

We are getting there with a little help from our friends.

On the other handmaide side, We might be out of a job anyway if Women becomes whatever a non masculine male thinks. We may be put back to be Queens of the home whether we like it or not!

I imagine Julie Bindel is talking mainly about people in the public eye who have a voice and influence and won’t use it

Now that I think about it, perhaps you are right Floisme. Well, I hope you are right.

It is true that only a small handful of the high-profile women (writers mainly) spoke out about this, going back say ten years or so. There was also a small network of radfem bloggers doing their part. And brilliant radfems like Dittany, consciousness raising the issues over here, which has turned out to be a very critical part as the women here have turned out to be quite active 'on the ground' (writing to MPs etc).

I do understand Bindel's frustration - a case of saying the same things over and over, not being believed, until now, when everything we warned about is unfolding before our eyes. I guess it is a case of "what took you all so long?" type of frustration underpinning it all.

Yes

And my local council one. Got an interesting reply when I attached the Fairplay for Women document, separately: "Thank you. I look forward to reading your reply to the Consultation"

Yes. And the Scottish and the London ones.

Have you contributed to the GRA consultation?

I am less afrai that a was. I would be able to speak up at work. In fact I feel so strongly that if I thought children were not being safeguarded I would be prepared to lose my job. And if some GIRES or Mermaids person came in to talk to us I would be very assertive in my questioning. And I've been in this long enough to have facts at my fingertips

From a bitter comment directed at Caroline Lucas MP, I got the impression that Bindel was also calling out hypocrisy.

Lucas talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Actually, that's wrong. In reply to a question about Green party policy on legalising the prostitution of people, Lucas replied: "That's what my party believes but I happen to disagree with the policy".

The support of an MP like Lucas to Julie Bindel, would have made all the difference. Lucas walked the walk with prostitution, but for some reason would not take on the rich powerful and influential LBGTQ.

placemats your list is extraordinary.

I'm not afraid to call out safeguarding - hold on! Actually, yes I am because there is a conflict here. I will be called a bigot (a word I find offensive due to my background). Safeguarding is being eroded and all the above will topple if it is stripped away.

Then that is where we msut look. Sinister goings on.

Some people are cowards it is true, who could do more but have no real excuse. But they would always be like that, always the very last to speak up.

Some of us live right on the edge of society and survival already though and that is scary and dehumanising, especially if you have lsot your heath.

Yes very dark times bowl

I think the housing crisis is a huge factor. Losing your home and not being able to find another whilst also being unable to work (more than once) is among the worst things that have happened to me/us in quite a long lsit of really very shitty things. Things are not what they were 18 years ago, especially in the south of england.

This feudal land grabbing system as you say bowl Post-enclosure peasants robbed of common land.

I am working with a few other people to do what I can, and do stickers etc. I have been incapacitated by health issues sicne before this all really got going, so had no idea or even who Julie was! But then I have fought other fights too in the meantime that have not jsut served myself as I know what it is like to need help. It isn't enough though and I am late to this casue so I am sorry for that and being such a dim newbie. But I feel that burning obligation that barracker says to do something, anything. I could never live with myself otherwise.

I imagine Julie has also felt very alone and ostracised at times and been incredibly brave and resilient. I sincerely thank her. (and I hope she lets some of us off the hook little bit.)

I'm not afraid to talk about Brexit.

I'm not afraid to talk about sexism in the work place.

I'm not afraid to call out racism.

I'm not afraid to call out homophobic attitudes.

I'm not afraid to call out discrimination.

I'm not afraid to call out safeguarding - hold on! Actually, yes I am because there is a conflict here. I will be called a bigot (a word I find offensive due to my background). Safeguarding is being eroded and all the above will topple if it is stripped away.

But I do caution people about the wisdom of telling someone you support them but you can't do so openly.

Yes. Do some of the things Barracker suggests. But don't whine at Julie in her PMs.

She's right.

I imagine Julie Bindel is talking mainly about people in the public eye who have a voice and influence and won’t use it - the Cabinet Ministers who whisper in corners with James Kirkup, maybe the JK Rowlings.
I think she’s entitled to have a pop at them. As I recall, she was a regular Guardian writer until she started speaking out. She was pretty much on her own for a long time and I imagine she’s paid a price both professionally and personally.

I may not always agree with her but I think she has enormous courage and integrity.

Oh and in that fractured society you can push any agenda you want, and asset strip to your hearts content.

Because no one is uniting to stop you.

I’ve been thinking about this. blardy has summed up a lot of what I feel on this.

It’s been bothering me for a while. People speak up about all kinds of things - political, corruption etc. Why not this?

Fear - basically. But not fear alone - with changes in societal structure. Sorry this will be long and rambling.

I’ve said for a long time that we are producing a generation of students who cannot effectively stand up to opposition or tyranny. No debate/no platform attitudes have lead to or perhaps just come along with, an inability to really argue. This we see daily - cogent and informed viewpoints on here are met with thought terminating cliches and accusations of transphobia.

No one can argue anymore
Twitter restricts you to sound bites
Alternative facts have lead to identity politics and people thinking their opinions are as valid as objective truths.

All this leads to infantilism- a hiding from reality. I’ve often pondered why this has been allowed. I can only conclude that it benefits those holding the reins of power to have a poorly educated, ill equipped to argue generation. Who cannot manage without physical comfort.

But maybe that’s not enough. I’m part of the ruling elite. I want to make more money and I don’t want to share it. Nor do I want any pesky social uprising. What more can I do?

Well I can dial back workers rights. I can neuter the unions. I can make tribunals expensive. Perhaps I’ll dial back the reasons those pesky workers can contest being fired. Oooh, zero hour contracts! Yes everyone on them. Brexit will be great to remove even more rights.,

More dependency is created by debt. Uni fees mean people have debt from the start. Consumer culture works twofold - cheap consumer goods create an illusion of wealth while also meaning people need their jobs to pay for it.

So all this has created a move back towards an almost feudal system. The same lot who owned the land after 1066 still own it. The rest of us are peasants to serve them.

The upshot is a workforce where most people are two pay packets from serious poverty. Where education is mocked and where debate is stifled.

Where it gets socially toxic is where you Add in the whole queer theory stuff. Mix it with an MRA backlash (women are getting a bit big for their boots) and an alt right backlash (ditto anyone not white.) and you create a fractured, fearful society where there are seven billion identities and, as Julie has found - nobody is standing up for anyone but their own little tribe.,

I agree with Julie. At the same time I understand why people don’t want to risk their jobs.

Something very dark is happening to society.

I think she's brave for speaking out - and she's been speaking out for a long time.

But I also think it's really hard for women who are in jobs, and who risk losing those jobs if they speak out. It's particularly tough if you have a family to support. She probably ought to have some understanding of what it's like for those women.

I have historically been a bit of a coward but I am gradually coming out as GC on social media.