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Original poster

Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

770 replies

AgnesBadenPowell · 23/09/2018 01:04

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

OP posts:
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MinecraftHolmes · 23/09/2018 09:35

Yes - Girl Guiding UK covers Rainbows, Brownies, Guides, the Senior Section and Rangers.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/09/2018 09:32

It's probably not on a lot of people's radar. Does this mean that brownies are in the same boat too?

whiteroseredrose · 23/09/2018 09:30

Very worrying. I can't believe people don't care about this.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/09/2018 09:30

I hm think that the cadets will be getting busy. Until boys start demanding the girls uniforms and toilets.

But then from what I have read of boys who are on the track, they know that they are actually girls because the like pink fluffy stuff and dresses and sparkles (not marching, crawling through mud and climbing ropes) do maybe it wont be an issue.

I remember a friend of my sister's who is gay (very camp) the absolute horror of when he realised that he was going to have to do his national service. Not the activities - but the uniform boots. "I can't possibly wear those clunky ugly things!

drspouse · 23/09/2018 09:30

GG were advised by GIRES.

Needmoresleep · 23/09/2018 09:28

I was looking for something else, but found this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750064/Don-t-turn-Girl-Guides-little-socialists-implores-SARAH-VINE.html

Prescient.

cantthinkofanythingfunnyagain · 23/09/2018 09:24

I am a gc lurker. Very concerned about self id etc but scared to speak out. This has pushed me over the edge. I will be approaching my daughters unit about this policy this week.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/09/2018 09:23

I see they are looking for a new chief exec. Hmmmmm.

Bets are on!
Woman - 10/1
Man - evens
God knows what -??

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/09/2018 09:20

Girls won't want to go or be allowed by their parents

Who will volunteer? Concerned women or men who self IF and just fancy the outfit?

Men who, if things go their way, can erase their past activities as a 'man' so DRB checks are completely invalid.

So if a prospective manager Googled their 'man name' to find local newspaper reports of, say, flashing, violence, rape... Then this will probably a criminal act then?

OvaHere · 23/09/2018 09:19

According to Stephen Whittle on an previous MN thread this isn't and issue Clare. All GG leaders can just hand out condoms. Hmm

Doobigetta · 23/09/2018 09:18

Would it be feasible for you to continue running your unit as an independent? Effectively start a breakaway organisation?

ClareCAIS · 23/09/2018 09:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VickyEadie · 23/09/2018 09:16

"girlish", though...

BettyDuMonde · 23/09/2018 09:14

True Hackmum

Agnes please do not go quietly! We have your back.

hackmum · 23/09/2018 09:12

Although I feel incredibly sad for the OP and her colleague, the one bright side of this is that it really brings what is going on to public attention. Up to now it's been hidden away on the inside of the newspapers, but I think this has the potential to really wake people up to the threat to safeguarding. The Mail, I'm sure, will want to get its teeth into this. Parents are going to be absolutely furious when they find out what's happening. The Girl Guides have scored a massive own goal.

BettyDuMonde · 23/09/2018 09:10

What can we do? I’m a former guide and brownie and my nana was a guide in the 1930s and my mum in the 1960s.

I won’t be sending my daughter.

Could we get an open letter of support for leaders who question the policy published somewhere?

ImPreCis · 23/09/2018 09:10

Working
Yes, Yes, that’s me too!
Sad times.

LangCleg · 23/09/2018 09:07

I am so sad about this.

You fought hard and well, Agnes.

If there's any way to take this further and there is anything we can do to help, please ask.

DuckingGoodPJs · 23/09/2018 09:07

Horrendous news.
Won't anyone think of the girls any more? Seems GGUK will not.

Girls, and even women, thrive in female-only environments.

Shows how anti-female the 'inclusive' policy is.

AppleKatie · 23/09/2018 09:05

This saddens me so much.

And the reality on the ground is that awareness of these policies amongst leaders is very very low. We are sleepwalking into a shit storm and GGUK should have our backs.

The fact that they don’t appear to have is both shocking and demoralising,

As is the thought that if they link this post with my membership number they might expel me too Sad

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/09/2018 09:04

GG have basically spun the roulette wheel

where will the little ball land?

pregnancy arising from two 'girls' having sex at a guide camp?

one 'girl' raping another at a guide camp?

a predatory 'female' leader have sexual contact with a girl?

only one or more of the events above will bring this nonsense to an end, but in the meantime how many girls will have been gaslighted about biological reality, will have been told not trust their instincts, that their desire for an all female space does not matter.

jesus.

CrackpotsArePots · 23/09/2018 09:02

Time

Yes. Follow the emoney

TimeLady · 23/09/2018 09:02

Does anyone have access to an up-to-date trustees' report? I can only find the 2016 version on the Charities Commission website.

I'd be interested to know if this change of policy has anything tie in with a new source of funding.....

OvaHere · 23/09/2018 08:56

So sorry to hear this, I wish I could say I was shocked.

The GG have made themselves so vulnerable to exploitation by creating this massive loophole. Lets pray they don't have any David Challoner types ready to pounce.

averylongtimeago · 23/09/2018 08:53

I'm so sorry Helen.

As s Guider I have taken girls away many times, camping and indoors. The girls, guides and Rangers, aged from 10 up to 18.
There are strict safeguarding rules regarding contact between adults and children and about males on site. Basically they have separate sleeping,bathroom and changing facilities. At a large camp this summer for example, leaders male children over 8 had to sleep in a separate area away from the main camp.

There are many leaders who are worried that all safeguarding rules vanish as soon as someone says they are trans, plus we can't tell other girls or parents to give them a choice.

As for "girly activities" hahaha. Guiding has always done everything that the scouts do and more, just in a girl only space. I could post pictures of my Guides lighting fires, up trees, climbing, canoeing, covered in mud, building things, problem solving... but I won't because of safeguarding rules....

Helen has publicly said what so many think, she has been punished for this, for not toeing the line and it's an absolute disgrace.