Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

It must be really hard to work on something for years and years, and make incredible headway by flying more or less under the radar, and then suddenly BOOM, everyone is giving the issue scrutiny and things start to fall apart under close inspection....

Don’t suppose there’s much chance of them coming on a MN webchat then?

"Yes, it's an unbridgeable chasm, akin to that between faith and rationality. It's like a paleontologist trying to have a debate with a Young Earth Creationist. Empiricism vs revelation" .no, it's way worse. There is a chasm between my religious belief (atheist) and floral's religious belief (practising Catholic). But there is no conflict because we each recognise that Floral's beliefs defy science. For me, that is why they are untrue. For her, and others, that is why they are miraculous.

Just seen this on Twitter twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1044250491306352640?s=20 I don’t think they were expecting anything like the response and pushback on this. Hopefully they will start to question why and how their policies have been set up to fail safeguarding. It sounds like they are doubling down, though. Transgirls are girls and all. Of course, they couldn't define 'girls' for the life of them.

Sorry, might not have been clear there but I was responding to @salmonofwisdom, @Coyoacan - I personally think that "trans" and non trans children are massively at risk from the current TRA lobby

Honestly I know litigation is stressful and time consuming, but I wish someone would bring a libel action. Might make people think first before making untrue statements about people.

I agree and also pick my battles - it seems to me that many organisations will be a good target for class action litigation for willfully not consulting their members re policy changes that compromise the safeguarding of children

Just seen this on Twitter twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1044250491306352640?s=20 I don’t think they were expecting anything like the response and pushback on this. Hopefully they will start to question why and how their policies have been set up to fail safeguarding.

Honestly I know litigation is stressful and time consuming, but I wish someone would bring a libel action. Might make people think first before making untrue statements about people.

It really isn't a good look at this point for TELI, Whittle, Sue Pascoe (Channel 4) etc to be accusing Helen Watts, Dr Nic Williams or Fairplay for Women of being bigots etc

As someone wrote on the other thread, the other side of the coin to transphobia could be called childrightsphobia.

I have a feeling that whittle & whoever else was booked to debate this were binned because Helen & Nic have asked for open discussion with both GG & NSPCC

This would be really welcome. Its telling that the groups/individuals who lobbied to get the trans-inclusive policies want to defend them. The discussion though should be with the organisations and charities who have implemented them. Why can't they speak?

Poor girls and transgender children if there are people like you around.

You mean people who are want to protect children from being abused, mutilated and sterilised?

I have a feeling that whittle & whoever else was booked to debate this were binned because Helen & Nic have asked for open discussion with both GG & NSPCC, not the partisan biased "experts in the field" who don't give a shit about safeguarding for girls.

why was there not a representative of the Girl Guides to answer her? I didn't hear either show but I don't think they had a rep on 5Live this morning either? You'd have thought they'd want to present their side of the story.

Coyo GG refuse to engage with the issue. It's almost like they know it will make them look bad and there's nothing good they can find to say about it.

Does anyone know why? Susie Green CEO Mermaids was on. Because victimhood is all.

Having just listened to the World at One, Helen put her point across brilliantly, but why was there not a representative of the Girl Guides to answer her?

But, more importantly, this promotion of suicide by the Transactivists is really concerning, as is the BBC's complicity in it.

But - stephen was a girl, who identified as a boy. Stephen says, very movingly, that guiding was there when they were at rock bottom. The new policy says that kids like Stephen should be asked to leave guiding. Why is he ok with that?

It's a disgrace 😡

You mean people who care about safeguarding? Or just people who don't rush to put the needs and best interests of biological girls at the bottom of the heap?

Helen must be hitting a few nerves - the troops are being corralled & complaints being fired in as we speak. Whittle is even calling Helen a bigot. Helen is a decent, caring, concerned leader who has the girls in her care at the heart of her stance. Why does whittle and all the other "experts in the field" have a problem with safeguarding for children as young as 5, and informed parental consent for entrusting the care of those 5-7yr olds that Helen is concerned about? Are girls boundaries & rights to privacy & dignity really worth the tantrums evident on twitter? Complaining about someone standing up for those 5-7 yr olds & calling her a bigot for doing so really doesn't endear them to anyone does it?

Poor girls and transgender children if there are people like you around.

Poor transgender girls, if there are people like you lot around!

it's pretty much a religious belief and not yet in the Promise but it's only a matter of time.

Yes, it's an unbridgeable chasm, akin to that between faith and rationality. It's like a paleontologist trying to have a debate with a Young Earth Creationist. Empiricism vs revelation. The historic response to this has often been a schism. Separation on grounds of irreconcilable doctrinal difference. Third spaces.