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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Good to see Mail exposing Transgender Trend dishonesty

138 replies

ArmchairAnnie · 22/09/2018 12:53

We never wanted our stickers to be used in schools says group which recommended plastering them all over your pencil case.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6193573/Parents-group-apologises-anti-transgender-stickers.html

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UpstartCrow · 22/09/2018 23:53

You cant have been very involved in fighting Clause 28. As a single parent, if it has passed and I had gay friends stay the night, my child could have been taken into care.

Your false analogy is insulting to the lesbians who are being harmed by this conversion therapy dressed up as progressiveness.

foxyliz26 · 22/09/2018 22:42

Some people allege this is a modern day Clause 28 type set up?

As an out lesbian who marched with many people from the LGBT community decades ago against Clause 28 it looks feels and smells the same

the only difference the T then stood for Transsexual one of our dinner guests wishes me to point out !

she was the best Family Law Solicitor who represented mostly women , her past is exactly that

she is a friend of all the 12 other women sat round our dinner table earlier , (our dinner partys are always women only spaces !)

CrackpotsArePots · 22/09/2018 21:53

Annie's on another thread. I've invited him/her back to answer our questions, or failing that engage in a game of conkers or Uno. So we'll see

FloralBunting · 22/09/2018 20:44

Ha. Anti-Woman Activists do like their fake gotchas, don't they? GC posters bring rapists and paedophiles to the table, AWA whip out their impressive... "Good idea."

As far as smoking guns go, it's a bit flag-with-bang-written-on-it, isn't it?

JackyHolyoake · 22/09/2018 20:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Melanippe · 22/09/2018 19:59

I'm always slightly sad when I see the OP wanging on about bollocks because her name is so similar to ArcheryAnnie who was, as I recall, rather wonderful. Ah well.

PencilsInSpace · 22/09/2018 19:49

'Children have a right to privacy from the opposite sex'

'Kids shouldn't be taught in school that they can choose to be a boy or a girl'

'We don't know the long term effects of puberty blockers'

'Children confused about their sex usually grow out of it'

'In the last 6 years, there has been an almost 1000% increase in kids referred to a UK gender clinic'

'Around 35% of young people referred to UK gender clinic have autistic traits'

'No child is born in the wrong body'

'Medical sex-change treatment for children is an experiment'

Which of these statements do you disagree with OP? Leaving aside for a moment the stickers themselves, should a child be permitted to make these statements at school? E.g. a 6th former in a class discussion?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 22/09/2018 19:18

I have just clicked on the link in the OP.

There are a grand total of 2 comments. Both seemingly supporting transgender trends sentiments on the stickers.

Interesting eh OP?

Gawd, it shows what a botched together non-story of a press release this was from Stonewall. The headline is so convoluted and dull that even bloody TRAs can't be bothered to read, share or comment on it.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 22/09/2018 19:14

What an overreaction.

Responding “good idea” to someone else’s suggestion? Is that the best you’ve got?

Or is it literal violence?

NothingOnTellyAgain · 22/09/2018 18:59

Crackpots

I was going to say that maybe if you are a lesbian and hang out predominantly in lesbian & maybe gay places then you don't have such a well honed creep radar? While het women who want to pull men and so hang out much more where they are and have to try to work out which one to pull / which ones are iffy and may go home with them so a lot hangs on it, might be better able to spot a pervy weirdo...

But this is nonsense,I am makign excuses. Men don't know women's sexuality when they shout at them as schoolgirls, try to get them to get in the car on the high street as teens, wank their dick at them on the tube etc etc. Plus of course all the additional hate crimes if you are id-ed as a lesbian by men when out and about.

Why am I trying to think of excuses? Because I can't believe that women - equalities activists no less - would prioritise obviously misogynist / pervy men over other women.

is it an "in crowd" thing?
Is it a "cool girl" thing?
Is it a combination? Do these women see run of the mill women and girls as sort of boring inferior 2D caricatures? Like literal "cis"> vapid, barbie style sex objects who are bitchy and cruel and need to be pushed into doing "the right thing"?

CrackpotsArePots · 22/09/2018 18:43

glomming

CrackpotsArePots · 22/09/2018 18:42

I think they bullied her. I think she relied on a community for emotional support when she was a young lesbian, and amongst them were trans men. So she felt an affection but also a feeling of obligation. And she's a woman, and we are all socialised to be nice. And I think, given her background (girls school, womens college Oxford) maybe hadn't much been exposed to toxic masculinity.

I think that Stonewall's work was done to a large extent (in this country) and trans was the new thing: glooming on to that helped her retain power

ABitCrapper · 22/09/2018 18:41

I have just clicked on the link in the OP.

There are a grand total of 2 comments. Both seemingly supporting transgender trends sentiments on the stickers.

Interesting eh OP?

IAmLurkacus · 22/09/2018 18:34

My theory is a lethal combination of stupidity and socialisation.

I lot of the self righteousness I’ve encountered from female allies is very similar to the self righteousness of some church goers. Humans capacity for self delusion is infinite.

CrackpotsArePots · 22/09/2018 18:34

Lang

I wonder if Annie knew that?

Well, no matter: all the lurkers know it now Grin

NothingOnTellyAgain · 22/09/2018 18:29

"Stonewall's Ruth Hunt made a decision quite a while ago to push gay rights to the side and to throw her lot and the charity's funds into trans rights. "

Does anyone have any idea why women esp lesbians are doing this? GG is another case run by a woman and acting against female interests at the behest of one or more creepy pervy chaps.

I know what is in this for men, but why are these women in some cases leading the charge to remove safeguaridng etc?

IAmLurkacus · 22/09/2018 18:27

Nice bit of racism there from our dear friend Susie.

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 18:27

Interview with Stephanie Davies-Arai where she speaks at length & with nuance about the background to Transgender Trend:

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 18:25

Guardian article discussing differences between the Mermaids/ Allsorts and Transgender Trend's toolkit approaches:

'Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help'

(extract)

Profound disagreement has arisen about what schools should do. Should they, in the words of a widely used toolkit from the Allsorts Youth Project in Brighton, “make visible and celebrate trans people”? Or take the “watchful waiting” approach advocated by the Transgender Trend pack, which warns schools to be “aware of the risk of ‘social contagion’ from celebrity trans internet vloggers who glamorise medical transition”?

Stephanie Davies-Arai, a parenting adviser, launched the Transgender Trend resource pack in February half-term, thinking it would barely get noticed. Instead, she says: “It just blew up”. The LGBT lobby group Stonewall accused Transgender Trend, the organisation Davies-Arai set up two-and-a-half years ago, of spreading “damaging myths, panic and confusion”, and advised local authorities not to use the pack. On Twitter, people piled in, with one describing the pack (which had been checked by lawyers) as a “modern edition of Mein Kampf”.
Davies-Arai says she took an interest in the subject because as a child she had felt herself to be a boy, and she didn’t think it was a good idea to label children like her as transgender because she believes that in some cases, these feelings resolve naturally by the end of adolescence.

While the Allsorts advice states that “trans pupils or students should have access to the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity” and that in PE lessons, students “should be enabled to participate in the activity which corresponds to their gender identity if this is what they request”, Davies-Arai argues that shared changing rooms present difficulties for some girls. Few teenage girls will be willing to admit that they feel uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a biologically male student, she says.

She points out that the technical guidance on the Equality Act for schools suggests offering students “private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space” – the approach taken at Miles’s school.

Susie Green, CEO of the charity Mermaids, disagrees, saying the debate about single-sex toilets seems “engineered to whip up fear” and is equivalent to “arguing people of colour shouldn’t be allowed to use the same toilets as white people in case they make them dirty”. (continues)

Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse.

When they come out, she says, they have brought in information sourced from Tumblr blogs and YouTube videos. Although her team does its best to “support every child in a loving, kind and compassionate way”, she feels that staff are too frightened to challenge what she sees as harmful practices: “We have chest binders worn in school, which is horrible. If a child was cutting, they would be straight in with a counsellor. Yet damaging developing breast tissue goes unquestioned. It’s a gross failure in terms of child protection.”

Green disagrees, and argues for a biological underpinning to transgender identity: “If a child or young person consistently, insistently and persistently states their feelings, to ignore, punish or repress their gender identity would effectively be reparative therapy.” (continues)
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

LangCleg · 22/09/2018 18:20

Is it a good idea, given all you might know or suspect about a child's background, mental health or the fact they might have ASD, to unquestionably affirm a child's gender confusion? Even if you were missing possible emotional abuse, sexual abuse or mental health problems?

The Allsorts pack specifically says that it's ok to affirm and socially transition SEND children at school without informing their parents and even if other professionals working with the child disagree.

That's not a safeguarding loophole: that's fucking obliteration.

Cascade220 · 22/09/2018 18:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FermatsTheorem · 22/09/2018 17:29

Just in case any lurkers out there don't know who Aimee Challenor is, this twitter thread from Times journalist Andrew Gilligan will fill in the gaps.

twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1034044550136975360

Aimee Challenor was instrumental in helping both the Green Party and Stonewall develop policies around young trans people, including putting in place exactly the sort of safeguarding gaps alluded to up thread.

But no, apparently stickers stating the obvious biological truth that women do not have penises are what we should really be worrying about.

CrackpotsArePots · 22/09/2018 17:27

And before I go, another question from me:

Is it a good idea, given all you might know or suspect about a child's background, mental health or the fact they might have ASD, to unquestionably affirm a child's gender confusion? Even if you were missing possible emotional abuse, sexual abuse or mental health problems?

placemats · 22/09/2018 17:26

I'm off to eat my home made lemon drizzle cake (tray bake).

Then some chilli for this chilly day and settle down to some Strictly followed bizarrely by Killing Eve; the latter I've already seen but it's so worth a re watch.

FermatsTheorem · 22/09/2018 17:25

Stonewall's disapproval really isn't the trump card you think it is OP. I don't hold Aimee Chanellor's opinion on the safeguarding of children in very high esteem.

Yes. This. A hundred times over.

So how about it, OP? Give Lang's questions a go?

Is it a good idea to take a vulnerable, emotionally distressed child, and encourage them to disclose their distress to one adult, in confidence, with no guarantees that that adult is trustworthy?

Is it a good idea to take a vulnerable, emotionally distressed child and encourage parental alienation?

Is it a good idea, having encouraged a vulnerable, emotionally distressed child to confide in a single adult in confidence, to then discourage multi-agency working?