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Original poster

Complaints about the literacy level required to respond to the GRA

86 replies

theOtherPamAyres · 21/09/2018 13:24

I am getting feedback that, despite guidelines and helpful notes, people are finding it impossible to fill in the GRA consultation.

I am going to raise the matter with my MP and I would urge anyone else to draw attention to this insurmountable barrier to participation.

It's almost as if the government only want to hear from "the right sort" of person and organisation.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
chaoticgood · 03/10/2018 18:15

muttley you don't have to fill it out online. This is from consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/user_uploads/gra-consultation-document.pdf

^There are a number of ways you can respond to this consultation:
ï‚· You can complete the online response form.
ï‚· You can e-mail your responses to the questions in this consultation to:
[email protected]
ï‚· You can write to the Government Equalities Office at:
Gender Recognition Act Consultation
Government Equalities Office - 6
th Floor Sanctuary Buildings
20 Great Smith Street, London
SW1P 3BT
You can also ask for hard copies and easy to read versions by emailing^

GatheringHerBrows · 02/10/2018 20:15

Muttley, I want to complain about the consultation - do you think that's where I should complain to?

MuttleyLaugh · 02/10/2018 18:51

The contact details for the consultation are [email protected], 0370 000 2288.
I've filled out plenty of government consultations in the past and I've never seen one that you have to use an online form for, although more recently they use these more as it makes analysis easier. Some consultations have responses from groups who report back on a consultation meeting - for example people using a disability service could be consulted and their words quoted in a joint response without being directly named.
If anyone is in a position to gather individual or group consultation responses from others who are for whatever reason unable to use the official form, email them off and ask for confirmation that these will be included in the analysis of consultation responses. If they replied no, they'd be saying explicitly that the consultation will not be accessible to vulnerable people.

Zeugma · 02/10/2018 17:37

I did mine today as I knew I'd probably run out of time if I left it another week. I used the FPFW guide and answered only the questions they suggested but it still took several hours because I wrote quite a lot. It's not easy but it can be done if you plug away.

I'm really proud of Dh - who filled it out at my suggestion and even took them to task for their poor use of language Grin

arranfan · 02/10/2018 09:01

I've done a barebones summary of the FPFW guidance here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3382148-Could-someone-help-me-fill-out-the-GRA-questionnaire-please

We can just enter Yes/No answers for the 8 questions that FPFW highlight - there is not need to answer all 22.

It would be good to enter a comment for Q22 even if nowhere else but it can just be a list of what you think the consultation omitted. It can still just be 'Yes'.

ShcfG · 02/10/2018 00:50

The wording of the questions comes from a nonsensical trans ideological position, which makes them difficult to understand and answer, from a woman's point of view, and a woman safeguarding children point of view. Which makes it all the more important that we do persevere, because we're women and we're trying to protect women and children from male violence.

Hazandduck · 02/10/2018 00:24

I found it very hard to follow when I was completing it. A lot of the questions just seemed unnecessarily wordy. When I've been trying to convince people to complete it, they all seem willing, until they actually sit down to do it because it is quite complicated :(

Original poster
theOtherPamAyres · 02/10/2018 00:00

Well those principles of consultation are enlightening. Thanks for finding them @gatheringheretc.

They are not only enlightening but they underline the need for plain English and clear questions, rather than obscure language with added bias. They recommend that there should be a variety of ways to consult those affected - not just a questionnaire.

As we reach the final furlong, we may need to encourage people to use Yes and No answers.

Perhaps choosing to add detail in two or three areas, where time is short and we are unable to sweat the responses over a couple of hours.

If this was the government's cunning plan to prevent submissions from the "wrong sort" of people (ie individual women), then it must fail.

We can do this.

OP posts:
GatheringHerBrows · 01/10/2018 23:44

I think it could reasonably be argued that several of the principles are broken by the consultation.

GatheringHerBrows · 01/10/2018 23:37

This is a link to the gov.uk consultation principles:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/691383/ConsultationnPrinciples11.pdf

ShcfG · 01/10/2018 23:31

My previous post was a response to the last post on the preceding page, by chaoticgood:

"I agree it's elitist and prohibitively complicated.

It's also manipulative.

All the concepts and language that we base our feminist thought upon are disallowed before you even get to the first question."

Yes.

ShcfG · 01/10/2018 23:27

Yes, manipulative.

So bloody frustrating. But we must persevere.

chaoticgood · 01/10/2018 23:22

I agree it's elitist and prohibitively complicated.

It's also manipulative.

All the concepts and language that we base our feminist thought upon are disallowed before you even get to the first question.

BeenHereAWhileNow · 01/10/2018 22:39

Completed eventually, that was gruelling need Wine Will do the sport one tomorrow

BlatheringWuther · 01/10/2018 18:47

It is remarkable when compared to the extraordinarily simplistic question put to the nation in June 2016...

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 01/10/2018 18:46

Placemarking
I'm going to try and fill this in tomorrow, I have autism and will need this thread to have any hope of finishing.

howard97A · 01/10/2018 18:32

As some of the questions can't be rationally answered by someone who thinks GRA is a bad idea , I found Question 22 useful. The preamble to Q.22 says

If you do not feel that your views are best put in answer to any of the other questions in this consultation, please use the below box to provide us with any further views you might have about the Gender Recognition Act.

Haireverywhere · 01/10/2018 17:05

With thanks to this thread I finally managed to complete my response to the consultation online. I have a headache!

Oldstyle · 01/10/2018 16:01

I just tried to upload my responses: two versions - a word doc and a pdf - so that people could use them as a starting point. It didn't work. If someone can tell me how to upload a word doc (assuming that's possible), that would be great.

GulagsMyArse · 01/10/2018 15:00

I keep putting off, because of this,

Hamster00 · 01/10/2018 14:56

I have just finished mine. It's taken me a good few hours and I've kinda plagiarised/adapted swathes from the Fair Play for Women's Guide as it's more eloquently written than I could have phrased it.

As a transsexual who unequivocally supports the rights of women, I felt quite uneasy as to how all the questions seem to be phrased in such a way to cater to the furtherance of trans ideology.

If anything, the GRA should be stricter and a GRC only issued to those who have not only gone through the entire medical process but have also achieved a surgical outcome.

Self-ID absolutely cannot happen. I just wish I could do more.

arranfan · 01/10/2018 13:59

raisinsraisins - whoever signed off on the wording of these questions needs a performance review.

Did you take a look at Fair Play for Women's Guide?

fairplayforwomen.com/full_guide/#q3

If we want, we only need to answer 8 questions - not the whole thing. And Yes/No can be enough. It's just so important that we fill it in and return it - so that our elected representatives know that we noticed and we're responding.

Serfisafleur · 01/10/2018 13:58

Please try again raisins
I will try tomorrow.

raisinsraisins · 01/10/2018 13:31

I’m educated to degree level and use computers as part of my job, but I have given up on filling in this consultation. I will try again, just because I feel so strongly about it, but found that the questions didn’t make sense from a gender critical point of view, and very difficult to answer. Most women I know would not even attempt to get past the first page.

I’m sure that all the transwomen with careers in IT are finding it easier than most....

ShcfG · 01/10/2018 01:06

What kooshbin: says: "But right from the start, it was quite obvious that it wasn't my views, as a woman, that they were interested in at all."

That's what I've been getting from this consultation. It is designed for trans ideology. Women fuck off.