Woman (maybe) kills 3.

And so help me, my first thought on hearing the story was 'was it really a woman?'

And I'm still waiting to hear if the six-foot knife wielder in Barnsley was actually a woman too.

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/21/maryland-shooting-female-shooter-snochia-moseley/1378272002/

"She discussed gender identity, anxieties with friends"
"Moseley was described as a woman on Thursday by both authorities and court records. She also listed her gender identity on Facebook as female, but Moseley described herself as transgender in Facebook messages given to the Baltimore Sun."

"I just started talking about (being transgender),” Moseley wrote. “My sister is totally supportive, my brothers already had an idea, my mom I haven’t gotten around to admitting it to yet. but she’s heard about it somehow.”

"In December 2016, Moseley discussed seeking hormone treatments."

I would take from all this that Mosely is male. News outlets would rather be inaccurate than have the TRAs descending upon them for misgendering.

The moment my DH read this he said "not actually a woman!" and then went on a rant about deceptive reporting. I suspect he's not alone there - most people really don't realize that major news organizations have re-written their guidelines to require their staff to use the "preferred" pronouns in cases like this, which is why you so often see photos (since that's the only way they're allowed to clue the reader in).

One of the main takeaways from this story is how the ideology is destroying language and the ability to report clear facts and also how we can no longer assume that facts are factual.

No-one will actually know the truth and the stats will be wrong and this will impact on the ability to asses problems and any hope whatsoever of dealing with them.

YY to both of these succinct observations.

It puts me in mind of Kornbluth's The Marching Morons. (I loathe the story and it's much-adored by fans of eugenics but that's not the point here.) mysite.du.edu/~treddell/3780/Kornbluth_The-Marching-Morons.pdf (pdf)

It is removing our ability to rely upon our memory of events or experience. It might make us wary of transmitting stories or knowledge. We have neither the language nor confidence that facts are objective, and factual, that would allow us to comment on stories.

Years ago, I saw a passing reference to a people who were so apprehensive of the loss of face involved in making an error (even in good faith) that it made them unwilling even to attempt to give directions to others. It reduced social cohesiveness and interaction because it, inevitably, reduced social cooperation. (I'm so annoyed with myself that I failed to make a note when I saw this.)

Also think a woman from reading the news reports. Obviously haven't passed the magical transgender line where they must be referred to as their identifed gender.

Everything I've read says female. Transgender identity but not certain whether male or female pronouns. Perhaps non binary?

I think it looks like a woman dressing and standing like a man. A man trying to pass as a woman is more likely to be in rather baggy neutral clothes or a lacy fuscia frock and blonde wig.

Are the photos half way down the Daily Mail Story the person we are meaning?
This person looks like a male bodied person, that is not a result of hormone treatment.
So I am not understanding why people are saying transman?

These days it's odd bit to see a feminine face (I think they look like a woman) on a person who looks like they are presenting as a man without the pronoun 'he' attached. Well the other way around anyway.

The killer is a biological female. Appears to have a twin?

A transman, on testosterone.

No question.

It's another thing that adds to the anti-science, everyone can have their "own truth" type approach beloved of donald trump.

Woman reported as mass shooter.

Whether people actually think that it is likely to have been a cunty woman or not will depend on their own biases.

No-one will actually know the truth and the stats will be wrong and this will impact on the ability to asses problems and any hope whatsoever of dealing with them.

I had a look at her FB page last night after I saw pics because I thought she was a transwoman. Her gender was listed as female so I would assume that means male born. I think the page has been taken down now though.

As a general note, the US has < 5% of world population, but 31% of its mass shootings from 1966-2012, according to University of Alabama analysis.

www.asanet.org/news-events/asa-news/us-has-5-percent-worlds-population-had-31-percent-its-public-mass-shooters-1966-2012

It looks like this paper: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822013

The pdf of the full text is here: crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Lankford-Public-Mass-Shooters-Firearms.pdf

some would argue that even with comprehensive gun control policies, public mass shooters would still be able to obtain the weapons needed to carry out their attacks. By this view, offenders would just get their firearms illegally, through back alley or black market deals. However, although this may be the likely response to gun control from organized crime groups or gang members, the individuals who commit public mass shoot- ings are typically not well connected (Langman, 2009, 2015a; Lankford, 2013; Newman et al., 2004). Many are so beset by personal problems and mental illness that they may lack the social relationships necessary to acquire firearms through back channels (Langman, 2009, 2015a; Levin & Madfis, 2009; Newman et al., 2004). In fact, a recent investigation of American mass shooters found that the vast majority of their firearms were purchased legally (Follman, Aronsen, Pan, & Caldwell, 2013).

I don't know if they were referring to an earlier version of the story but Trans Media Watch refers to a transwoman (not that people always use that accurately):

The Mail reports that a trans woman has shot herself and others in Maryland

twitter.com/TransMediaWatch/status/1043094906741424130

I should say that, courtesy of the news reports, I have no opinion on the sex/gender of the shooting suspect.

"One of the main takeaways from this story is how the ideology is destroying language and the ability to report clear facts and also how we can no longer assume that facts are factual."

This is what I came on to say.

It is a FACT that most violence and especially mass shootings & sex crime are committed by penis people.

So when this was reported yesterday that a woman had done it I said, well.

It could be a woman, which would be very unusual. Are women doing this more in the USA > if so, it is a worrying sign that the normalisation of it as a reaction in USA society means it is leaking past classic "angry man" aggressor

It could be a transwoman in which cse business as usual (male violence).

WE DON'T KNOW.

And this matters.
MRAs will be saying OHO women do it too this is a people problem!
Some people (across teh board TBH) will be saying hmmmmmm unusual for a woman maybe a transwomen which is also NOT GOOD as it is based not in fact but pushing suspicions around

IF there are changes in the actual profile of people who commit these crimes that is potentially INCREDIBLY SERIOUS for USA society and needs to be identified and dealt with or at least recognised.

As things are, we no longer know whether crimes that are reported as committed by women, esp ones v unusual for women, have actually been committed by women.

I know the answer is TWAW but this is NO USE with crime stats. Not if you want to understand and reduce crime.

Agree that transwomens pronouns are always respected, transmens not sure (hardly ever in the news for reasons other than "had a baby") so, who knows.

What is for sure is that this is not helpful to anything.

We were discussing this on this thread as well. Interesting link provided by ICantBelieve.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3371654-Criminality-by-sex

Yes ova.

One of the main takeaways from this story is how the ideology is destroying language and the ability to report clear facts and also how we can no longer assume that facts are factual.

You have to assume she's male-born, because they never knowingly misgender a TW.

Exactly. But as I say I've seen the double standard of them misgendering FTMs.

I haven't seen any photos of this person only discussion about them being a transman. Seems like there is some uncertainty about their sex and how they identified.

The BBC piece is even worse, as it doesn't report the trans factor and and in a breathtakingly stupid piece of analysis says

Mass shootings by women are rare, with more than 95% of such attacks in the US carried out by men

www.newser.com/story/264920/friend-of-maryland-shooter-she-wasnt-a-monster.html

Oh so it is a bloke

I read about this earlier. Obviously another person who should never have had access to firearms given their mental health background.

I also noted no media was kowtowing to use preferred pronouns, I guess those are transwoman privileges.

Ironically mass shooting is very much a 'living as a man' thing to do. Much more so than having babies.

oops, have reported my own post as it turned into a pronoun/tense hot mess
will try to make my point again in a bit, fortified by coffee