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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do we need a third term: not 'cis' or trans?

34 replies

MrsKCastle · 21/09/2018 08:04

I've been thinking about this a lot. Trans ideology likes to split people into cis or trans, making a clear binary. Either you identify as the 'gender assigned at birth' or you identify with a different gender, making you 'cis'.

Like many (most?) feminists, I reject gender completely. I do not feel a gendered sense of self, I do not want others to treat me as a certain gender, I do not have preferred pronouns.

In order to fight trans ideology, I think we need to show the trans vs cis binary for the nonsense that it is. We need to show that there are other ways to exist outside this binary. You can be agender or possibly antigender. Ungendered? What do you think?

OP posts:
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heresyandwitchcraft · 24/09/2018 16:17

Sometimes I "translate" my points into trans activist language, but really only to point out the inconsistencies in their ideology. We don't need a third term, but we may need new words for actual biological sexual reproductive differences if we cannot resist trans activism demolishing the meaning of "sex" "male" and "female." But, if you are talking to someone who would likely bleed Kool-Aid if they got a papercut because they've been so immersed in this way of thinking, then you can say you are "agender" or maybe even "neutrois." I think that is their term for not having a gender identity at all. Incidentally, it would make you "trans."

TimeForDebate · 24/09/2018 16:08

Real

ErrolTheDragon · 24/09/2018 09:23

Someone has started a thread link8ng to this essay from a couple of years ago - I'd try to make any idiot trying to force 'cis' onto you or making a song and dance over their 'gender' (other than actual transsexuals) read it and try to refute it.

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

longtimelurkingtrans · 23/09/2018 09:34

Turph
I feel your frustration, some of the trans crows fill me with despair especially the ones that actually believe you can change sex, I much prefer transexual but got grief at work for that as apparently some claim it to be offensive.
Go For the wigs, good ones can still be cheap enough and give a whole variety of looks without skinning yourself at the hairdressers.

Turph · 23/09/2018 07:22

longtimelurkingtrans
Not aimed at you, I just decided it is a great idea, that's all. Wink

Turph · 23/09/2018 07:19

Transwoman is good enough for me
I might adopt that if I'm pushed. I could identify as a transwoman. I'm an adult human female but they can't tell me I can't identify as a transwoman. I've read about them, I've met plenty, I can relate.
I feel like a transwoman. I'm a six foot tall muscular person in a much shorter woman's body and it would be nice if I could wear a wig and fishnets.
I'm going to claim awards on behalf of transwomen, I think. I might join a few of their groups. Transwomen have periods too! I mean, I do, and I'm a transwoman now, so it's true, right?
Please feel free to congratulate me on my stunning and brave status.

seafret · 22/09/2018 22:19

We must not give up the word woman. They can have gender and their nonsense. Woman they can prise from my cold dead hand.. they probably will

longtimelurkingtrans · 22/09/2018 21:25

Transwoman is good enough for me, What I have noticed that those who shun the title trans and claim twaw are the activists.
Most rational trans do believe we are born male stay male despite our cosmetic/surgical changes and we do understand we aren't changing sex either.
twitter.com/Rose_Of_Dawn
twitter.com/TranimeGirl . Just to name a couple of the more prominent and a lot more eloquent posters than I am who share that view point

MrsKCastle · 22/09/2018 20:55

Thanks for responding everyone. Just to elaborate a little, I am thinking of the times when trans believers say that if you're not trans, you are cis. They refuse to see any other option. As Barracker said, it's like asking if you have ever been abducted by aliens, or did the aliens leave you alone? I want the re response that is the equivalent of 'Don't be so ridiculous aliens don't exist'.

And I suppose I've just answered my own question: the response is something like 'Don't be ridiculous, gender isn't a real thing'. But TRAs won't accept that. So I find myself giving responses like: 'I don't have a gender identity, so I am neither cis or trans.'

But I also want young people, especially those vulnerable teenage girls, to be aware that they are being sold a lie. They are being told: 'Everyone is either cis or trans. Everyone has a gender identity, even if they don't know it'. And that's nonsense.

But it's so hard to get that message across when we are constantly policed and bullied over our language..

OP posts:
theOtherPamAyres · 21/09/2018 12:50

Outside the binary you are a male/female impersonator?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 21/09/2018 12:32

In order to fight trans ideology, I think we need to show the trans vs cis binary for the nonsense that it is. We need to show that there are other ways to exist outside this binary. You can be agender or possibly antigender. Ungendered? What do you think

I think I see where you are coming from, but I'm a little lost as to the specific contexts in which you would use the word.

I'm 'gender critical', so that explains my ideological stance (prefer this is agender and antigender and anyway I think they already use agender).

Dunno OP - can you write a sentence or something as an example of what you mean?

Babdoc · 21/09/2018 12:21

Barracker, that was a brilliant post! What a perfect analogy for this whole nonsensical farce.

ChilliJamandAvocado · 21/09/2018 10:30

Nope. It's still an individualistic (ie false) solution to a collectivist problem, namely the oppression of women as a class because of shared biology. It bends the bars of a cage enough to let a single canary out, but leaves all the other canaries trapped behind.

BettyDuMonde · 21/09/2018 09:55

I’m a gender atheist. No need to pick from categories when you don’t believe gender exists.

OvaMyDeadBody · 21/09/2018 09:44

We never needed a word to define someone who wasn't emo or goth. When we had mods and rockers there wasn't a third category for people who were neither. Just tell us what you are - man, woman or trans. There's no need for any of the other bs. It's all personality and preferences.

LangCleg · 21/09/2018 09:18

No, OP. There are two sexes. Simple. Socially, there are unlimited presentations. Simple.

Barracker · 21/09/2018 09:17

This question to me is like asking
So, when we've labelled everybody into Was-Abducted-By-Aliens and Was-Not-Abducted-By-Aliens, should we create a third category of Does-Not-Watch-X-Files? Or is it enough just to write the first two categories into law and organise public changing rooms and boardroom quotas accordingly, do you think?

EarlyModernParent · 21/09/2018 09:14

The urge to label every possible nuance of gender/ sexuality/uponeselfness is a significant factor in how we got into this mess in the first place. Most of it tells me far more than I care to know anyway.
So I would welcome fewer terms being used, not more.

HotRocker · 21/09/2018 09:10

Woman is fine, thank you.

MIdgebabe · 21/09/2018 09:01

And as soon as women are split between the trans and cis umberellas it becomes very difficult to discuss things which are directly related to the female biology, such as sex discrimination or the need to ensure that new medicines are tested on females as well as males

DukeOfSussex · 21/09/2018 08:56

Non binary means "ungendered" though, but that comes under trans too. If you think you aren't trans they will label you cis. And in using "ungendered" you're kind of implying the something non binary does, that you are different in your feelings about gender to the normal person.

Movablefeast · 21/09/2018 08:48

I completely agree that woman is the best word and I need no other. This very aggressive campaign to force new language and therefore new definitions as normal onto the general public is extremely political and coercive and I completely reject it.

Of course they are using propaganda on the young by teaching it in schoools and universities as the new orthodoxy and persuading teachers and lecturers who teach what language means to accept this ideology too!

We need to completely reject their new language and definitions. Resist!

Cascade220 · 21/09/2018 08:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

user187656748 · 21/09/2018 08:35

We have three terms
woman, man, trans (if they feel the need to label themselves as different)

Babdoc · 21/09/2018 08:35

That should read “ the term” not “ the the”, obviously m!

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