Confused

I do not like to make a fuss
but you do not belong with us
and when my sisters tell you no
the thing for you to do is go

The problem is this isn’t true
Not all females feel the same as you
I saw your stickers in the loo
You can be a feminist and a trans ally too.

There's a similar one for the attempts to talk lesbians into loving cock, maybe someone still has a link.

Extra points for getting the knitting in!

Share away, Datun

I'll post it here but not sure if it will stick long!

I will not say it, tran-I-am

I am woman
you are man
we cannot change that, tran-I-am
you'd make me say that we're the same
I do not want to play that game

but what if I can wear a skirt?
and tell you that my feelings hurt?
what if my long hair I curl
can't you see I'm now a girl?
what if I begin to knit?
you'll agree that makes me it
what if I put on a bra?
say that changes who we are

a woman cannot be a man
it cannot happen tran-I-am

what if my identity
tells me you're the same as me?
what if all my friends agree,
will you say that you're like me?
what if I am really funny?
what if I withhold your money?

I will not say it tran-I-am
I will not say you're not a man

what if I am in your space?
would you say it to my face?
what if all the legal courts
say I can be in your sports?
what if laws are made for me
stopping you from stopping me?
what if a panel all agreed
gave me the paper I said I need?

I do not like to make a fuss
but you do not belong with us
and when my sisters tell you no
the thing for you to do is go

what if doctors all agree
I hate my body, can't you see?
what if I cut off my willy?
I'm a woman then, you silly
what if men all over earth
tell me I was mixed at birth?

what I am is not like you
you say you're me
but that's not true
you say that we are both the same
we're clearly not and that is plain

what if truth becomes a crime?
would you say it, given time?
what if I hit you in the head?
what if I claim you want me dead?
would you say it for a judge?
why oh why will you not budge?

would you say it if I danced?
would you say it in a trance?
would you say it pretty please?
will you say it on your knees?
would you say it to a fox?
would you say it if I doxx?
would you say it if I'm pretty?
would you if I called you shitty?
what if I call you a name,
will you say we are the same?
would you say it if I hid?
would you say it to a kid?
would you say it if I'm backed?
would you say it when you're sacked?
would you say it to a mayor?
would you say it anywhere?
I'm not like the others, see
will you say it just for me?

say it!
say it!
say it please!
just repeat it after me

not if you dance
not in a trance
not if you plead
not if I bleed
not to a fox
not if you doxx
not if you're backed
not if I'm sacked
not for your please
not on my knees
not to a judge
I will not budge
I would not say it if you hid
I'll never say it to a kid
I would not say it to a mayor
I will not say it anywhere!

I will not say you're not a man
I will not say it, tran-I-am!

say it!
say it!
make it true
say that I am just like you

I do not want to tell a lie
and say that you're the same as I
there's nothing that a man can do
to make him me when he is you
I will not say it just for you
I will not say what isn't true
I will not say it from a jail
I will always know you're male

I always picture the smugly smug person sweeping out after tossing their hair and dramatically whipping their coattails to the side.

(And then promptly falling flat on their arse.)

Wow, hairy poet that's brilliant

HairyLittlePoet

Wow. That is fantastic. May I share it?

It's kind of hilarious how convinced so many males are that if they word their special case just the right way it will change our minds. Whether the male in question is wearing workboots or lippy makes no apparent difference.

Dommina

I think I've made myself clear and will get off the thread here. It comes down to whether or not you a are willing to broaden the definition of woman. I am, you're not. Fine.

Translation: now that I've said my piece I'll leave before anyone gets a chance to refute it, and I'll put a sting in the tail for good measure 😂

Transparent.

Well, happy to oblige.
Dedicated to you, then.

That's just what I was thinking of!

It all starts to get a bit Green Eggs and Ham after a while. What about if they're in a box? What if they're holding a fox?

This one's just for you @AngryAttackKittens

Thanks for the inspiration x

irischild.blogspot.com/2018/09/i-will-not-say-it-tran-i-am.html

'hi Domina'
'Oh hey Cindy'
'I got a new dress today'
'oh wow its lovely! But you know you're still a male right?'
'oh yah, I know'

@Dommina That's a really odd exchange. In this context, why would you mention that the person was male? It's irrelevant. You said yourself, earlier in the thread:

So I'm mindful of being respectful of their feelings. I will call any one who wants to be called a woman a woman. I might question it privately, but I think it's respectful to honour pronouns.

So you also don't believe that everyone who calls themselves a woman actually is one. I think your position is closer to most others on this thread than you realise. You can be polite to genuine transsexuals without believing that they are actual women, or that any man who declares himself to be a woman belongs in women's spaces.

You want to broaden the definition of 'woman' to include gender non conforming men. I would prefer to broaden the definition of man to include gender non conforming men. 'Woman' already includes gender non conforming women.

How many transmen are highly active on teh UK furry and adult baby scene?
Stuff like that.
This is men's shit.
Would be fascinating if women start to do all that stuff with / without testosterone & "social transition"

MipMipMip

Would love to know the source of that.
There arent many transmen about (yet!)

Do transmen who have no treatment (hormones etc) start to commit crime at the same rate as men or is this only with drugs etc?
Do transmen start to commit sex offences at the same rate and of teh same type as men (voyerism, public masturbation, exhibitionism, sexual grooming of teenagers, street harrassment, and so on to penetration with an object (rape as per UK law not usually possible) and CSA, viewing images of CSA etc and so on)

"It all starts to get a bit Green Eggs and Ham after a while. What about if they're in a box? What if they're holding a fox?"

lolololololol

Just to clear up a point - transmen start to commit crimes at the same rate as men after a while. But as they remain physically closer to women even with testosterone (same height, still not as strong etc) they are easier to fight off and remain less of a threat than men. Although they can commit sexual assault I understand they cannot commit rape as their penises (in the rare cases they have them) are non functioning. Objecting to them is like objecting to a strong lesbian - yes it's possible you'll be attackef but unlikely.

Incidently if you doubt that this is a gentle illness that should be treated as such, rather than affirmed with surgery, look up the operation to get the fake penis. It is horrific. Make sure there are no kids about, seriously.

I'm at the point where if someone signs off with what's basically "smugly smug smug, look how much more virtuous than you I am" it just makes me roll my eyes.

Precisely what I did.

It all starts to get a bit Green Eggs and Ham after a while. What about if they're in a box? What if they're holding a fox?

@howlsmovingcastle84's response to Dommina's somewhat strange scenario is exactly my reaction too.

Let the men broaden their own definition, not colonise ours.

Anyone who does the "why aren't you bothered about transmen?" thing immediately makes me wonder what is the basis of their feminism.

I'm usually waiting for the next question to be "well what about lesbians, aren't you scared of them too?"

No, no we are not.

I'm at the point where if someone signs off with what's basically "smugly smug smug, look how much more virtuous than you I am" it just makes me roll my eyes.

Transmen tend to pass much better than transwomen in posed photos, but irl, where you can gauge overall size, see shoulder to waist to hip proportions, hear their voice, etc? Not so much. There's also the whole female socialization thing preventing them from trying to take up as much space as possible and leading to them being aware of and sensitive to other women's reactions.

Anyone who does the "why aren't you bothered about transmen?" thing immediately makes me wonder what is the basis of their feminism.

Even the reading group comment is designed to elicit the feminists are mean trope without even considering why a woman's group may be desired.

'hi Domina'
'Oh hey Cindy'
'I got a new dress today'
'oh wow its lovely! But you know you're still a male right?'
'oh yah, I know'

why would that be the response to the new dress comment? Are men not allowed to wear dresses? I'd personally like to live in a world where a man can talk about his new dress without raising an eyebrow from anyone. I'm interested in broadening the definition of men. You're not-that's fine.