Confused

Isn't it interesting that those who so vigorously affirm the rights of some to a self identified identity being heard, valued and respected, are so firm and disrespectful in labelling others.

Yeah peaked , sorry, there's your marker of 'disobedient woman'. Aka, outcast, harridan, burn the witch, pick your century If you believed that men write the rule book, you must respect them and it's awful if you don't and they get cross with you, then you'd have a problem. If so just ask for a lifebelt and gin and the other witches have you covered.

But I expect you're fine.

And apparently now I'm a rad fem

Haha I never thought there would come a time when I'd burn with homicidal rage on behalf of lesbians, but there you go, now it happens daily.

Yes, it's very revealing.

Conflicted, liberal minded woman seeks answers.

#NoDebate elsewhere doesn't play here, and the TRA lies are laid bare by reasoned conversation.

Conflicted woman sees reality for what it is and in response, the TRAs turn and throw out an accusation like 'You already made up your mind/you don't want to listen/you're mean'.

Conflicted woman knows those accusations aren't true and it dawns on them that if the TRA is prepared to deny reality and malign them, the TRA isn't the one with the answers.

It's not the GC posters of FWR that make MN a Radicalisation Portal. The Radicalizers are, and have always been the TRAs. We just let the sunlight in.

Ah jeez you're welcome OP. Why ask about other viewpoints if you already know you're a rad fem.

Here's how Peak Trans works. Women hear a pile of male-centred, woman-erasing shite and lies such as 'sex offenders are never housed in the female estate' and realise that supporting this runaway train is not actually in their best interests - nor that of all other women.

Totally agree that Dakinis - you do you. You share - we won't stop you. Now, we want to do us, and that means we don't consent. Why do you want to override our consent? What makes you want to override our consent? Why are you so obsessed with making us share facilities with male-bodied people? You can do it, with our blessing if you like, but why are you so dead set on forcing us to share?

PeakedInPs is a RadFem now
Dakinis would like to know how
She posted asking a question to
Which the answer she already knew.

Ah jeez you're welcome OP. Why ask about other viewpoints if you already know you're a rad fem.

Seriously Dakinis draw a line under this thread and take up the offer Barracker made.

Stick around and ask some questions, fill those gaps in your knowledge. You may not change your mind but you will have made a properly informed decision!

'Us women' (while talking down to women) and 'Us Lefties' (while talking down to people here many of whom if not predominantly, are left voters...)

You keep loudly identifying while being tone deaf to the very people you're trying to identify with. Really need to stop reading this thread and go back to trying to nail that jelly to the table.

Wow thank you Datun this was another moment of clarity for me:

"And not Debbie Hayton who claims that the only authentic people are those with surgery. Or India Willoughby's claim that the only authentic one are those who aren't fetishists. Or the fetishists' claim that it doesn't matter, they're all authentic.

Being supportive of a whole bunch of men sitting around trying to decide which one of them has the most right to access women and girls, and fuck what you think, is so far removed from feminism, it's not funny."

I know the prison system isn't perfect but sex offenders are never housed with women.

Oh but they are, a paedophilic offender was housed in a women’s prison with a mother and baby unit.

Firstly, many of us here are lefties so you need not imagine you can educate us on 'the leftie feminist stance'. You speak only for yourself.

Secondly you've just embarrassed yourself by exposing your lack of research or knowledge on exactly what actually DOES happen when violent men identity as women.

Stick around and maybe learn something.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3370661-2009-case-of-a-judge-ordering-an-intact-male-rapist-into-a-female-prison-because-he-had-a-GRC

You've got to be kidding us Dakinis?

How can you not be aware of the numerous examples of exactly this thing happening, starting in 2009 and continuing for the last 9 years.

Juells I wouldn't call posting a few poems on a thread 'so invested'. The OP is new to the topic and I've written what the leftie feminist stance is. Us lefties rarely stick around for long, it's not exactly welcoming here for the non radicals. Accusations of 'we see you' etc etc

Anyway hope it gave the OP chance to see there are other branches of feminism which are welcoming and accepting of trans people .

I know the prison system isn't perfect but sex offenders are never housed with women.

What game are you playing with this statement, Dakinis? You know perfectly well that's not true.

I know the prison system isn't perfect but sex offenders are never housed with women.

Ah now you're just being goady, after all the threads about the recent case.

Every single one of those men would get automatic transfer to a female prison if they had a GRC. Automatic.

This just isn't true. Will Ian Huntley get an automatic transfer? Of course not. There will always be assessments on prisoners to see if they are playing the system. I know the prison system isn't perfect but sex offenders are never housed with women. That won't change with a GRA reform.

Dakinis isn't attempting to change anyone's mind, they're just repeating their mantras.

Either because it gets a good reaction, or because it somehow meets their needs. However anyone reading this thread can see GC women offering evidence, discussion, reasoning, explaining issues, trying to encourage some basic empathy and theory of mind....

and self ID supporters just blanking it all and repeating the delusion.

Vicky, as a lesbian I want the L the fuck out of LGBT too.

I just don't go to Pride or lesbian spaces any more, not wanting to have to deal with this ridiculous tripe and be faced with threats of being raped, beaten up or murdered for my sexual preference by people loudly and intolerantly bellowing about having love and compassion (except for those who won't conform to your personal politics.)

So I've been rendered invisible. No way to tell how many invisible, very pissed off lesbians are out there, because what's left are the happy on message brainwashed ones making it look like everything's lovely.

This is what it will look like when women who have been raped, assaulted, abused, have a religious faith or culture that doesn't gel with the preferences of someone male born, aren't comfortable or willing to be in states of undress around male bodied people, or the ones who plain believe going along with this ends equality for women, have all silently left women's spaces.

For anyone who cares about women, has their interests at heart, (and you would actually expect that from people who identify as women) this is a potential problem facing women that is a return to pre suffrage.

I don't understand why Dakinis is so invested in this anyway. If she doesn't mind - fine. Since the government/councils/male tide is running in the direction she favours, why bother trying to change the minds of the few women who are objecting?

Not all females feel the same as you

Please don't speak for you too? Oh the irony.... when your whole point is because some women are stupid and selfish enough to be stuck on 'well I'm ok with it so meh', that all women should be ok with it.

No. How I feel personally is irrelevant. In matters of consent, No trumps Yes. Always. Unconditionally. End of. I believe that as a woman, to work against those women saying, clearly, no I am not ok with this, this will exclude me, this will damage me, this is not right or fair or safe and will remove me from public spaces, is a bloody terrible thing to do.

I have a responsibility to care about others as well as myself. To consider and weigh up other people's interests, safety and future as well as my own. I do not feel any responsibility to bring a group of males into women's spaces, with all the costs that involves to those women, because of the perceived benefits to those males, some of whom have highly questionable motives for wanting to be there. I do not see the women's interests as lesser and self ID is not by any means the only way to meet the needs of transwomen.

Preferred way, but not the only way. And absolutely not a way that is in any way in the interests of women.

Dakinis - what's wrong with making the mens mixed sex?