Confused

FWIW I don't believe you're a handmaiden.

No one cares.

Sorry I'm still stuck on being called a handmaiden.

Interesting this is how feminists are referring to women as handmaidens who dare to have an unpopular opinion. How feminists are doing this to other women without being called out.

There was a mention of 'us women'. Take a moment to think on how many times you've ever seen that phrase used around MN.

Dakinis the strop
Might be
Someone Harrop

I may not speak for you, but you cannot override my consent. This is not a two way street.

The fact that you think you can, is worrying

THIS

Radical feminists (rad fems) generally exclude trans women, liberal or left leaning feminists generally include them.

Virtually every single radical feminist and many of the GC women here are "left leaning".

Dakinis As you couldn't tell me who self ID benefits, I've had to draw my own conclusions.

The only conclusion I can draw
About these changes to the law
Is that it's men who like to rape
And prey on women who can't escape
Who will have the most to gain
While women's rights go down the drain

Who will lose, well let me see,
With this new change to self ID?

Women in prison, well, they're fair game
And girls in school, they're just the same
The new teacher (with beard and willy)
Says, "Come on girls, now don't be silly,
Change your clothes for hockey now
I have been and made a vow
That means I'm a woman too
So why should I not look at you?"

What Betty said.

‘Empowerment’ is bullshit.

Feminists want liberation.

OP first rule of feminism - don't dismiss other women as 'handmaidens'. It goes against the very nature of female empowerment.

Even the raddest of rad fems concede that women who disagree with them are able to form their own independent opinions.

There was a mention of 'us women'. Take a moment to think on how many times you've ever seen that phrase used around MN.

Dakinis

Seriously now, please can you bring yourself up to speed on the situation regarding male people and female prisons. Most posters on this thread are up to date and informed.

I've linked one thread of many, but the feminist chat board has at least three prison threads just on the first page.

If I had just declared incorrectly to a bunch of people I was arguing with, that 'no such thing would ever happen' and was confronted with a very different reality, I probably would
A. Shut up for a short hiatus
B. Do some reading to ascertain whether it was true
C. Come back to the thread with either a stronger refutation that the 'rad fems' are making it all up, or with an apology for my supercilious attitude and a slice of humble pie.

I wouldn't be hanging around still posting poems after someone had just pointed me in the direction of done very hard, very disturbing evidence that male bodied murderous rapists and paedophiles, both with and without GRCs are in female prisons as we speak.

Oh dear God this is getting tedious Dakinis . The very last thing you're all about is 'equality'. Or anything involving rights for or the interests of biological women. And you didn't come here to fight...jeez.

Women take note: this is the quality of debate you get from self ID proponents. This is the respect they treat women with. This is the extent of their ability to actually reason or debate or explain. This is what they think of you.

Posters like that Dakini
Are all about equality
With some being more equal than others.

my little rad fem

Why is she little? What does that mean?

This is for Datun from your 'little Rhymer'

Posters like that Dakini
Are all about equality
When they post on FWR
Their views are most unpopular
Won't call trans women men
Refuse to give it oxygen
Will never, ever go rad fem
So you do you and I'll do me
We're always going to disagree
You keep insisting you are right
I didn't come on here to fight
So, my little rad fem, until next time
I wish you well... enjoy your wine

It's co opting 'feminism' as just another label in the carousel of identity politics. It's fuck all to do with what feminism actually means. You just Pomo the meaning into whatever suits you, et voilà! You are a feminist. See also: Lesbian and Woman

@BabyItsAWildWorld

You're not alone in that lightbulb moment.

There is quite a significant illumination to realising that it really is a bunch of men deciding what constitutes women. For their own personal gain. And all them having a different opinion!

This thread is very eye-opening. It's long, and detours a little two thirds of the way through, but it's one of the most important threads I've ever read on here.

And it's not boring...

Take wine.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364094-Debbie-Hayton-in-the-Times

OP to put it simply you can choose to include trans women with women in relation to feminist discussion or you can exclude them.

Oh give over. This is just label seeking.

No-one can stop anyone 'doing feminism'. Donate, volunteer, campaign. No-one can stop anyone doing that. It's a nonsense to even suggest it.

The more the merrier.

What feminism doesn't do is centre men. Even men who say they are women.

People complain about not being included are not interested in feminism. They're just interested in the label. It's nonsense.

Dakinis

Every single one of those men would get automatic transfer to a female prison if they had a GRC. Automatic.

This just isn't true. Will Ian Huntley get an automatic transfer? Of course not. There will always be assessments on prisoners to see if they are playing the system.

Well, my little rhymer, I believe you're behind the times. As far as I know Ian Huntley would be given a place in the female estate. The only thing that may stop him being housed with actual women, is if he is considered to be in need of the highest security possible. The reason being, there is no such maximum security facility in the female estate.

It is housed in the male estate. If, however, there was a woman in that facility (there isn't) he would be housed with them. He would be treated as a woman. It's written in the policy in black-and-white.

I've already mentioned Tara Hudson, violent transwoman (the screenshot is her telling Victoria Derbyshire and Nic Williams to fuck off because Nic suggested a trans wing) who head butted and knocked out the teeth of a bouncer, after a string of other offences and was housed in the female estate, whilst advertising their 7 inch surprise on porn sites.

Also Karen Smith, paedophile and self-confessed rapist who has just attacked four women in the female estate. And been convicted of sexual assaulting them.

Also Michelle Lewin paedophile and sex offender who was sent to female prison. Also Martin Ponting, rapist.

But, I'm sure you know all this.

OP to put it simply you can choose to include trans women with women in relation to feminist discussion or you can exclude them.

Radical feminists (rad fems) generally exclude trans women, liberal or left leaning feminists generally include them. This isn't an exact science, there is overlap. The point is despite this fundamental disagreement we are all feminists, just different types of feminists.

I ordered the men's version, as I always buy men's t-shirts.

Look at me, GNC my whole fucking life and not a hint of thinking I'm a different "gender"...

My "Hands off my rights" t-shirt arrived today.

And apparently now I'm a rad fem

This is how it happens.

We need a ‘radicalised by Mumsnet’ graphic, bit like the ‘approved by’ ones they put on fish fingers.