Confused

Vicky, Knicknack

Vicky, as a lesbian I want the L the fuck out of LGBT too.

I just don't go to Pride or lesbian spaces any more, not wanting to have to deal with this ridiculous tripe and be faced with threats of being raped, beaten up or murdered for my sexual preference by people loudly and intolerantly bellowing about having love and compassion (except for those who won't conform to your personal politics.)

So I've been rendered invisible. No way to tell how many invisible, very pissed off lesbians are out there, because what's left are the happy on message brainwashed ones making it look like everything's lovely.

ME TOO!

Women-only and lesbian-only meeting has become near impossible without the male-born. But that is one of the main purposes of all this wokeness, isn't it? We want our female-only spaces back. It is important to lesbians, females, living under the hetero-patriarchy.

Fantastic thread - hope it gets put on the signpost list (and the lists get pinned to the top of FWR).

BrownPaperTeddy

You're quite right that many posters have been immersed in this. For years. Patience is often in short supply.

Have you taken a look at this thread? Not just the actual thread, but the many links too. Hopefully it will answer some questions.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

TruthMyTruth I think the OP has found her people. I think you have too. And that's a good thing.

What I have seen on here is people who want the best for everyone. They want to protect women and children, they want trans people to be safe while not simultaneously making anyone else unsafe, they want affirmation to be questioned as it can be harmful and medical treatment to be delayed and if possible completely avoided (the reality is horrific).

I support all those desires. I suspect you do too.

peakedinpants Oops sorry. Confusing you with someone else. Reading too many threads and got too excited.

They’re supposed to make you think.
I find though that the nature of posts on these threads actually make me switch off from the message that they are trying to convey.

I asked questions on here last night and actually because some posters were patient and understanding of where I am I actually gained a lot more knowledge in those few posts than I have in weeks of trying to read the other threads.

I do actually find it quite ironic that at a time when women should be coming together groups of women are fighting each other.

I do find some language quite belittling and demeaning. This might well be my problem. I might be over sensitive but actually if your aim is to get more women behind your argument can you actually achieve that by fighting with them and making them see you as the enemy?

Many of you have, no doubt, lived this for longer and be more immersed in it but a lot of us are just starting to gain knowledge and question the proposed changes. If we, as women, can't ask other women these questions then who do we ask? Because the answer to that might be that we get our answers from the very people that you are fighting against.

OP, I can't remember if someone has already posted it, but this thread has lots of links, that you might find informative.

Things have moved on a bit, and we now have certain words that are banned. (Terf, cis).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

UpstartCrow

To be fair, I called that poster my little rhymer, on the back of her rhymes.

I had called them couple of other things I deleted before I posted, though. In a way, I was diffusing my own annoyance!

Cor you rad fems really know how to win friends and influence people.

I’m not interested in conciliatory. I don’t need more friends. I’m fairlyvsock of being nice.

It’s awkward isn’t it when people ask these questions? Why are kids being exposed to harm by being placed outside the safeguarding framework? Why are male rapists in women’s prisons? Why are a small vocal group of men determined to get rid of any space that excludes men? Why are kids being sold an idea they can change sex? Why are gender stereotypes being made more rigid? Why are kids being told puberty blockers are harmless and channelled into surgery while young while adults press for demedicalisation? Why did no one do due diligence on jess Bradley? Or Aimee Challenor’s election agent?

These are tough questions. They aren’t supposed to be nice.

They’re supposed to make you think.

I don’t think the op has found her people. The op is in the same position as me. Has a trans identifying child but also is aware of female safety. Just because us parents see this dilemma and want to support their child but simultaneously protect females doesn’t mean we are bigots or terfs. My child’s belief cannot trump the safety of women.. But u probably won’t understand my position. I’m supposed to show unconditional belief/love and accept my child’s belief even if it is to the detriment of half the population. Well, I’m not woke. Thank goodness. My child has no right to compromise females.

I'm still trying to imagine calling Datun 'my little radfem'.

Like that fool on the Brushbox thread. Check it out, if you haven't already.

Just plop, you're all mean, that never happens, lalala I can't hear you, you're mean, I'm off, bye

Sometimes I get torn between irritation over their stance, and indignation that they clearly think women are largely idiots.

Voice0fReason

That's it exactly.

Frustrating though it is to argue with people who make false claims, have them refuted and then determinedly ignore any requests to acknowledge that, it does such a wonderful job in exposing to the many lurkers that TRAs are just smoke blowers.

They have nothing.
No explanations, no acknowledgement of facts, no definitions, no ability to be reasonable.

Just plop, you're all mean, that never happens, lalala I can't hear you, you're mean, I'm off, bye

Over and over, thread after thread.
Like a pp said, the TRAs peaktrans everyone. They're unable to help it.

As I keep pointing out, the current law works on the basis of self ID. All this fear about males identifying as female and using female spaces. They've been doing it for 14 years. Legally. For 14 years.
This is incredibly misleading. Transexuals have been using toilets discretely and it hasn't caused a problem. It was never really publically discussed so other men never took advantage. In order to do it, transexuals had to be dressed as women and keep their penis hidden. They had to be careful about the places they accessed - it was pretty much only toilets. Had they wanted to use a women's refuge, women's services or women's only swimming sessions, they would have been told to leave.
What has started to happen in recent years is men have been exploiting their "right" to identify as a woman without making any steps to physically transition and they have been brazen about the places they are demanding access to.
There isn't a clear definition of what a transwoman is and there are no places that they feel should remain female only.

Anyway OP hope you got the answers you were looking for. Seems like you have found your people.

I'm sure the OP found answers, as did the hundreds of lurkers.

What you probably won't ever realise is their answers were largely supplied by you, Dakinis.

For those who've just joined us, a reminder of Dakinis' earlier statement:

I know the prison system isn't perfect but sex offenders are never housed with women.

Dakinis, you were asked questions. You didn't answer and you were shown that your opinion was factually wrong. At this point I'm not really sure why you're trying to convince anyone you were in any way likely to be won as a friend.

Dakinis
Your silence on who, other than predatory males, would benefit from self ID, is very telling.

Can you tell us whether you've revised your 'not wrong' opinion on there never being any rapists in women's prisons please Dakinis?

I'm much more interested in that.

Cor you rad fems really know how to win friends and influence people.

Anyway OP hope you got the answers you were looking for. Seems like you have found your people.

Is "male centric feminists" better?

I'm glad you agree that male centric feminists shouldn't call women TERFs.