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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Animal Farm : Slogans and Gaslighting

41 replies

GollyGoshGreat · 19/09/2018 07:13

Until yesterday I’d never read any of Orwell’s Animal Farm. When I got to the ‘Four legs good, two legs bad’ sheep chant, I immediately recognised the parallel with ‘TWAW’ slogan. Moving on to the gaslighting of the animals when the pigs move into the house and alter the seven commandments, I shuddered.

Wondering if anyone else had thought about this, I searched online and I came across this Jo Bartosh article .

I know the parallels with 1984 are there with 2+2=5 etc. but I wonder what Orwell would have made of the TRA movement.

OP posts:
UpstartCrow · 19/09/2018 10:13

Orwell gave us the term 'Doublethink' from his book 1984. The ability to hold two opposing beliefs at the same time.

AspieAndProud · 19/09/2018 10:13

SPOILERS!

''Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Trans Sister''

arranfan · 19/09/2018 10:10

Charliethefeminist - I literally meant the Fact Checking organisations like BBC's Reality Check (they messed up over FPFW's numbers); the C4 version; Full Fact, and all of the international fact checking organisations.

They fact check assertions/numbers in the news. I wonder what will happen when crime figures for women are boosted in particular categories because they include transwomen? Will they accept these as women's figures or will they mention the influence of these additional numbers and their contribution?

DJLippy · 19/09/2018 10:03

All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others

Animal Farm : Slogans and Gaslighting
Charliethefeminist · 19/09/2018 09:57

I have been wondering for some time what the Fact Checking organisations responsible for fact checking news stories will do when faced with the need to deny facts or they have to 'modify' them to report them

Firstly, avoid them. This is the most important tactic.

Secondly, absorb the 'huge' lie and examine small lie. So for example analyse the prisons issue by questioning numbers of XX trans people rather than addressing the huge, overwhelming lie that TWAW.

Thirdly, include comment from transactivists: unheard of in fact-checking normally. Comment enables fudge, it fills out a paragraph that enables the journalist to say an issue has been analysed, look at all the words here, when it hasn't.

GollyGoshGreat · 19/09/2018 09:50

Sorry redexpat I missed your earlier comparison.

Aspie spoiler alert next time please Grin I’m planning to finish it today.

OP posts:
hackmum · 19/09/2018 09:37

OP, I have also been struck by the parallels with Four legs good, two legs bad. It's a mindless, thought-limiting mantra designed to be repeated over and over again regardless of context or applicability or relevance. The other thing "Trans women are women" reminds me of, funnily enough, is the way that the Nazis would always end any communication with "Heil Hitler" - almost any statement you care to read by TRAs or their supporters ends with "Trans women are women".

So much of what Orwell wrote is pertinent to trans activism. The slogans used in Nineteen Eighty-Four - "War is Peace," "Freedom is Slavery" and "Ignorance is Strength” - all embody an outrageous, flagrant lie. This is exactly the case with "Trans women are women".

KittyKlawsReturns · 19/09/2018 09:29

I have been wondering for some time what the Fact Checking organisations responsible for fact checking news stories will do when faced with the need to deny facts or they have to 'modify' them to report them.

Presumably consult Orwell again and take tips from Winston's job in the Ministry of Truth.

AspieAndProud · 19/09/2018 09:10

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which. Except some were wearing frocks.”

arranfan · 19/09/2018 09:09

I wonder what the ASA will make of facts being declared exclusionary and transphobic.

I have been wondering for some time what the Fact Checking organisations responsible for fact checking news stories will do when faced with the need to deny facts or they have to 'modify' them to report them.

AspieAndProud · 19/09/2018 09:07

Orwell has never been more relevant.

As well as 1984 and Animal Farm he also gave us the line ''Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.''

Purplehammer · 19/09/2018 09:06

When the pigs learned to walk on two legs the chant became “four legs good two legs better.”

KittyKlawsReturns · 19/09/2018 08:52

Apologies for my punctuation above. I'm tired.

KittyKlawsReturns · 19/09/2018 08:51

I think a lot of the TRA methods of pushing trans ideology can be taken from Orwell's books which is unsurprising since they are a critique of methods of far left politics in his day - so propaganda, slogans and washing of history (Stalinism etc. ) It wasn't a critique of Socialism - Orwell was left leaning but of totalitarianism (and Communism which took that route) and methods used to push politics in that direction. So both Animal Farm and 1984 resonate particularly right now with identity politics as they advocate an almost totalitarian imposition of a belief system and enforcement of that.

redexpat · 19/09/2018 08:41

Yes I had written on a previous thread that twaw made me think of 2 legs good 4 legs bad.

OldCrone · 19/09/2018 07:21

‘Woman/ ˈwʊmən noun an adult human female’...This definition has been derided as exclusionary and transphobic, and reported to the Advertising Standards Authority.

I wonder what the ASA will make of facts being declared exclusionary and transphobic.