Guardian comments opportunity

Interesting to see the level of misogyny allowed on the Guardian, where they seem to believe that mumsnet is a combination of women who are bare-foot and pregnant in the kitchen and upper-class women with servants, with not a brain among us. All those comments were allowed to stand.

'a transwoman could not speak for women'

The BBC believes that a trans non-female (is that allowed) can certainly speak for females. It considers that Debbie's contribution to a recent shirt film was sufficient to represent women's views. Probably because the BBC is fully signed up to Self ID and has been for years.

Welcome Probably. We are annoyingly rational here. Science and evidence and well-thought out analysis goes down very well annoyingly enough. And please stick around - there are all sorts of people on here. I'm not a mum, for one (alas).

Guardian - I gave up on it a while ago after pointing out, in the comments on some article, that a transwoman could not speak for women, because, obviously......

Got put on the Guardian Naughty Step for that, and have not bothered getting off it.

Oh, damn, I think it is the wrong thread for my previous response, Shall have to search for the correct one.

Sorry about that.

Speaking as a general lurker, it's really good sometimes when a goady person appears, casting sly aspersions, and also totally stupid assertions of baseless orthodoxy; and the women of FWR put them right. Oh yes.

The goady person has their arse well and truly handed to them on a plate! And so politely and clearly.

@ProbablyOnTopic

Hello welcome, always nice to have people come and join us. This is a great thread for a starter

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

If you have any questions give me a shout on PM

As a wide-eyed naive student, I loved the Guardian.

I did. I loved Amnesty International too.

ProbablyOnTopic
I was one of those deleted. I mentioned 85% plus of trans women retained their penis. I didn’t put it quite like that. The threat to women’s spaces. The sexual assault of women in prison by a trans women. Girl Guides and trans women in women’s sport.
If you are really interested in why some mumsnetters are concerned about this issue these threads are useful.
“Frequently asked questions I have noticed here” and “Break it down for me”
I can’t provide you with a clickable link at the moment, but they are both on the first page of this board.

As a wide-eyed naive student, I loved the Guardian.

However, like the Lib Dems, they've become a shell of their former progressive selves. I now think they're one of the most misogynistic newspapers in the Uk, and that is saying something.

Welcome. I used to love the Guardian. I am horrified by it now.

How do you do ProbablyOnTopic.

Mumsnet is a really interesting place, glad you like it.

this thread is actually way more reasonable and constructive than most Guardian comment sections

Many of us here on Mumsnet FWR are former Guardian readers and commenters. I personally have largely given up on it due to its stance on women's rights issues and the censorship of reasonable alternative views.

I'll come back when a third gamete is discovered.

We'll page you then, Lang.

Hi, I'm the person from the Guardian who wrote "What is it with Mumsnet and transphobia, anyway?", as quoted in the OP.

I'm not a Mumsnet user - I found this because someone reposted the OP to the Guardian article in question, and to be honest I was worried that my comment was being held up on a different site to attack. If it's not cool for me to join this conversation, let me know.

I want to say firstly that I was wrong to worry - this thread is actually way more reasonable and constructive than most Guardian comment sections. And that it's ridiculous that your messages are being deleted. Most pro-Mumsnet messages were civil and didn't deserve deletion. Guardian moderation is absurd.

The reason I asked is that Mumsnet has come up in an anti-trans context a lot recently. And this genuinely confuses me. I see more anti-trans comments from men than women in general, and certainly I don't think parents are more likely to be anti-trans. So I couldn't work out why a site designed for mothers would be particularly against trains people.

Someone in the comments replied and said that this was because Mumsnet was prepared to host this side of the conversation, citing no-platforming and even threats faced by people concerned about self-identification. As far as I'm concerned this is a 100% reasonable answer. Free speech is important and shouldn't be shut down.

They will go down the pan, the stupid dogmatic fuckers. Who exactly do they think is going to give them money?

I remember when they were in real financial dire straits a couple of years ago - I was pretty worried at the time that they would fold. Now, the end can’t come quickly enough for those authoritarian, misogynistic fuckers, as far as I’m concerned.

PSA

I'll come back when a third gamete is discovered.

I wonder how many of them realise that 80% of transwomen have fully male bodies for example and have never ingested a female hormone in their lives.

There was a comment on there that said we'd misunderstood this, and had confused the terms transwomen and transmen. Then went on to say that because most transmen don't have surgery, we thought that meant that most men who identify as women still have a penis.

I can't find the comment now, so it may have been in one of the deleted threads.

Corlan;
My comment mentioned the majority of Transwomen retaining their genitalia and the reality of Karen White/Michelle Lewin in womens prisons.
and women wanting their concerns about safety addressed ,without being abused as bigots ,transphobes etc
38 likes and a rapid thread development before the comments were closed.
Not deleted (smile emoji)

They will go down the pan, the stupid dogmatic fuckers. Who exactly do they think is going to give them money?

Interesting that the Guardian want to censor women, though. Although I already knew it, it's interesting that they are still beating that drum.

I wonder if they know that women who have commented and had their comment censored, then repeat the comment here for the whole world to see how innocuous they are.

It's so insecure. Not being able to accept a even a questioning of your narrative, never mind a disagreement.

I wonder how many of them realise that 80% of transwomen have fully male bodies for example and have never ingested a female hormone in their lives.
That point was made but it was deleted too.

Donna has a Humpty Dumpty attitude to language - the old Alice Through a Looking Glass thing.

As for the Guardian comments. The woeful ignorance shown by many of them is mind boggling. No attempt to acquaint themselves with the facts about transgender. I wonder how many of them realise that 80% of transwomen have fully male bodies for example and have never ingested a female hormone in their lives.

Let’s not waste our time on this thread any more......the fact that the Guardian closed comments so quickly was enlightening to me.