1. If WP can throw Posie to the wolves, they can throw any of us to the wolves. Are you OK with that?

2. The thing about grassroots bottom-up movements like this current resurgence of radical feminism is that a) we don't wait to be told what to do nor how to think and b) the peoole with high media profiles aren't bosses who can tell the rest of us what to do. So if WP or anyone else are coming along thinking they can tell the rest of us what to do, they will get a shock.

Labour women are prominently involved WP -> check

correct

These same Labour women prevented discussion of austerity before, because they were too invested in some ideological point (feminism =/ motherhood). (We have the Twitter feed) -> check

This is the main leap that I think many people are struggling to get. How does some woman tweeting about her issues with infertility "prevent discussion of austerity" ? How do left wing women working for women get told they are responsible for deaths caused by a system they do not actually control ?

Also, feminism =/ motherhood. True, it doesn't

#Austerity hit mothers disproportionally and caused many deaths -> check

Wrong. It hit people living in poverty disproportionately. Some of who were mothers but many because of disability, mental health problems, old age, unemployment, lack of education etc. The whole "welfare reform" was devastating to the supposed "weaker" members of society, not only directly through sanctions and such like but through the gutting of vital services.

Middle and upper and well-off working class (yes, they exist) mothers were insulated by ££.

The core of WP, strongly influenced by same Labour women was so invested in some ideological point that they cast Posie out for said ideological point, blind to the actual consequences (in analogy to austerity) of painting a target on someone, which can be dire in the current climate -> check

Being un-invited by one group from one meeting is not "casting out" nor "painting a target". Posie had already been targetted (actually deliberatly targetted) by Mermaids who had set the police on her. This happened way before WP decided they didn't want her at their meeting. Posie also had a huge amount of support from people who weren't the loony left WP core, so not exactly an outcast at all.

Posie was, consequently, increasingly targetted, doxxed. -> check

She was doxxed by the same gang who already had her on one of their lists (along with several other known trans-critical women), and, to repeat, had masses of support including fundraising for ££ and platforms elsewhere.

The message of WP is streamlined to be compatible with Labour positions -> check.

mostly correct

The strongly Labour influenced core makes secret talks with politicians (of Labour), leaving their power base, the women who built WP in a grassroot movement in the dark -> check

I agree this is not acceptable, and think transparency is important - across the board and without double standards,

Does anyone here think that WP is not an 'organisation' in the usual sense of the word? We can't join or be part of a distinct group, as with FPFW who are letting us loose on streets up and down the country, under their branding.
I think WP are facilitators, in the sense that they put their name to the meetings but don't get involved more than that. They issue guidelines etc.
They did seem to handle the PP thing badly, however there was claim and counter claim. They issued their statement and then silence. It came off strangely and it also fits with the kind of shadowy impression that they're not revealing anything about the JMcD meeting?
Tbh I don't even know who they are. So
I don't know about all the things said about them on this thread. Other people may know more.
I can't see them revisiting the PP situation but it would be great if they could issue the guidelines / procedures mentioned upthread.

That would be very handy, you're right arran

Maybe it would be useful for the women's organisations in the political sphere to come to FWR and explain who they are willing to accept as members, supporters, officers etc.

And to outline whether or not they have an adherence to procedural justice when making their decisions and if there's a due process for investigating people, dis-inviting speakers etc.

Related question: should WPUK give a platform to Tory-voting GC women? If not, why not?

So people must agree with and propagate smears against wp in order to show solidarity with Lisa.

Observable reality is not a smear. Observable reality:

Labour women are prominently involved WP -> check

These same Labour women prevented discussion of austerity before, because they were too invested in some ideological point (feminism =/ motherhood). (We have the Twitter feed) -> check

#Austerity hit mothers disproportionally and caused many deaths -> check

The core of WP, strongly influenced by same Labour women was so invested in some ideological point that they cast Posie out for said ideological point, blind to the actual consequences (in analogy to austerity) of painting a target on someone, which can be dire in the current climate -> check

Posie was, consequently, increasingly targetted, doxxed. -> check

The message of WP is streamlined to be compatible with Labour positions -> check.

The strongly Labour influenced core makes secret talks with politicians (of Labour), leaving their power base, the women who built WP in a grassroot movement in the dark -> check

Fazit: Pointing facts out and drawing logical conclusions from them is not a smear.

I REPEAT
I did NOT ask for thread to be DELETED (I don't want it to be) and I did NOT initiate a pile-on.
And people saying so are fanning the flames.
Impossible. This has turned really horrible from me asking a simple question which was a perfectly legitimate one.
You all have rushed in, with the only intention of propping up Lisa's UNFOUNDED accusations of a conspiracy against her.
I suspect that Lisa thrives in this kind of conflict situation. She certainly doesn't accept any attempts to calm things down. Well I don't and it makes me nervous of meeting people irl at a WP event. MN & all SM can be bizarrely cliquey place as I said on the other thread.
I have said sorry FOUR times now.

LangCleng was expanding on my point, I agree with her additions.

Your response implies we are taking the opposite position to what we have actually said.

So, to clarify:
Absolute agreement is not a condition of solidarity.
It’s perfectly possible to demonstrate disagreement with another woman and/or disapproval of an opinion or action in a manner that does not subsequently leave them (and by association their families) in an avoidably vulnerable position.

I understand what Lisa is saying, it’s not rocket science. It’s a bit naive to say a political campaigning group have their manifesto and they don’t ever deviate from that or they would never have a different motivation for what they’re doing beyond the strictly obvious.

What did Posie Parker say that’s so horrible she deserves to be pushed out onto her own and left to be picked off by activists who have put her children’s safety at risk? We’re seeing this tactic with politicians and it has been roundly condemned (as it should be) and they have power and resources to help them protect their dc - what does the mum on the street have? Would you speak out publically using your real name if your children’s safety is the consequence? Most of us would not. Using fear and ostracism to control people’s voices is not something we should condone. Perhaps Posie could be given an opportunity to discuss her views and if they are so terrible she could apologise. At the moment I’m assuming it wasn’t that bad because if it had been genuine hate speech it would have been sent to the police as a hate crime like the other stuff she apparently said was.

What I see reading this atm, is that an attempt to get everyone to turn on Lisa has clearly not worked, so it's ramping up into "thread deleted for being a bunfight"

You are tilting at windmills now.

Indeed. I can only assume it's wilful because I have used short words, short sentences and, short of monosyllables only, find it hard to think of a way in which I could be more clear. Engagement clearly pointless.

No I fucking well did not.

You did not try to engage with me you lied, misrepresented me, contributed to abusing me, and then continued to demonstrate manipulative and abusive behaviour. Thats not ok behaviour, its not acceptable in an adult and I did nothing to deserve it. I am actually a person. This is disgusting behaviour from an adult. Disgusting. Your behaviour to me is disgusting.

Interesting take, Caroty

Not at all relevant to what I actually said, but interesting, nonetheless.

You are tilting at windmills now. Your own imaginary windmills.

Time for a repost:

Now I missed other posts and haven't replied. This is impossible.
But I've learned something and I will never try to engage with you again Lisa.
I promise.
100%

I wont be posting on Mumsnet again. Really. FYI The two things I have done to offend you and bring this raining down are existing in a reality I cant change and can describe and objecting to actual harm caused by austerity to miullions of women and by one action from an organisation I have fully supported to one woman. Ta for demonstrating what happens to women who do that but I already knew cos this is my entire life.

The sorry is arrives with more of the same so I can only assume its not sincere could you cease being manipupatliuve and abusive to me as I dont know you and have done nothing to you and you dont know me and I did nothing to deserve it but point out that its not ok. @nancytoo

Lisa.

I don't know the others. My posts are about me. There is NO tag team and I hope someone will mollify you by saying these accounts are not linked.

I have written the word sorry three times.

You are winding me up now. There's no conspiracy and I'm not saying it again.

And you type really fast, I guess you're using a computer, I'm doing this on a phone and can't keep up. Please put a full stop under my part of this.

Solidarity is not difficult to understand, its where people support each other and recognise harm. Distinct from mob justice and abuse by coherent groups who come together to cause harm.

Also Caroty I agree that there’s a weird understanding of “solidarity” here. Been through it all before with the Posie fiasco.

Nancytoo you appear to have difficulty with perceiving reality. You just posted here to misrepresent what I said I want to iknow why. I want to know why I am in the middle of a tag team between you, Caroty and Slothsloth and what precisely you get out of doing this? Is it pleasure? Is distress the payoff? Disorientation? What?