Women on the left are responsible for austerity

did i even spell it right, lurkacus? i wasn’t 100% sure...

There's an extra irony in the fact that the jumping off point for Lisa's comments was the public trashing of Posie Parker, and that Carroty then responded with what very much comes across as a demand that the women here do the same to Lisa.

And now I’ve had to google rorschach test every day’s a school day on here

OPs response to the point that Lisa originally made entirely proves Lisa’s original point. I don’t always keep up with Lisa and a lot of what she says goes above my head, but I get the gist of it and she’s right.

I actually agree with Lisa that the treatment of Posie was shabby and left her horribly exposed. I’ve stepped back from WPUK to other groups that sit better with my politics as a result. I don’t agree with carroty’s politics at all, fwiw.

But i still don’t think that carroty is to blame for the entire derail, and i’ve obviously missed whatever seems to others like trolling. I can’t follow Lisa’s posts (so i don’t know what I am meant to agree or disagree with). I can follow carroty’s (and am clear that where there are some interesting points, at the end, i don’t think they’re practical or implementable).

This thread is like a rorschach test

Maybe we can bring back carrier pigeons, deep, or train ravens like on GOT.

Her assertion that by organising the left, you are tacitly supporting, and responisble for, austerity.

No. Her assertion is that protecting personal political identity and party messaging (which is anti-austerity) in contraindication to factual policy proposals (which uphold austerity) is tacitly supporting austerity.

Engage with that.

Will there be coffee in the post-agriculture utopia?

We'll never know. 'Cause we won't have means of communication, let alone shipping routes, that could connect us to the places, where it might grow.

But OP, you seem to not realise that for society as it is, right now, to return to hunter gatherer, will require and result in the deaths of billions of people.

The original thread has been super useful to a lot of people and it really wouldn't be good for it to be taken down because a bunfight broke out, which is why it was suggested that the discussion be moved to a new thread.

Will there be coffee in the post-agriculture utopia?

No

Surely that depends where we live? I have arthritis, there's not a chance I'll be hunter/gathering in the UK, but maybe somewhere warmer would be a smidge more likely...?

By all means argue with Lisa's interpretations of events, but it's an entirely different thing to make up your own interpretation of her interpretation and then argue with that instead.

Exactly. I have followed Lisa for years and this happens to her everywhere she ever shows up. It does my head in, so I can't imagine what it does to hers.

If any of these people actually engaged with what she is saying rather than what an apparently injured self-identity accuses her of saying, we might get somewhere. But they never do.

Whether Lisa has a point or not, the OP was asked to start a new thread. She did. Sounds like it would have been better to stay in original thread, because this just looks fucking weird now

(There will be no joking allowed in utopia.)

Precisely. By all means argue with Lisa's interpretations of events, but it's an entirely different thing to make up your own interpretation of her interpretation and then argue with that instead.

Er she never once mentioned women who worked in the media...

She has done numerous rants at female journalists. She certainly does take particular issue with women in the media and it seems she felt forced out unfairly by stating her reality in a way that others didn't like. She did not play the role of the 'token single mother on benefits' in the way they wanted her to.

She also does more generally say that middle class women didn't want to see the effects of austerity thus the media didn't adequately and accurately report how it was effecting those who were dealing with it.

Will there be coffee in the post-agriculture utopia?

What Red said.

Lisa's analysis is - like everyone's analysis - subject to critique. But if her analysis is twisted and misrepresented by people who want to challenge it, the entire conversation becomes a combination of straw man and misdirection. It's bloody annoying. And it's certainly incompatible with persuading political parties to institute any pro-woman policies.

Women on the left, AAK

I'm proposing allowing life to flourish on the earth and you perceive that as the ultimate austerity?

Yes honey, gathering and hunting tribes live ultimate austerity. It does not reflect well on your analytical skills, if you cannot grasp this.

Here you go, Lisa's first post on that thread that mentioned "the rhetoric framing WPUK as left wing and labour, which de facto excludes people from WPUK" (not just "left wing women") and "the reflex response to place Posie and her children at risk to jostle for a position in a hierarchy". Not a random incoherent post from nowhere, but a post that is clearly related to the elevation of trans voices (what with the thread being about Debbie H) over women's voices.

Well, this thread is Batshit.

Red as usual, a voice of sense cutting through the insanity. I agree with the points you make and therefore I suppose I agree with Lisa, though I've not seen the thread where this started.

OP I don't understand how you can advocate for a return to a system where billions will die because otherwise billions will die... to refer to popular culture, whilst I am generally of the opinion of "Thanos wasn't wrong" as a concept, I also think his methods were appalling.