Any Irish feeling a bit isolated...

Thanks, Mar (it's odd to type that, my great aunt is known as Mar ) that does sound familiar now you say it. I obviously remember the kerfuffle rather than the details.

Mother the NUIG gender neutral toilets are third space, alongside single sex ones. There was a bit of a kerfuffle about them repurposing disabled toilets as disabled/gender-neutral. Same story in other colleges.

We moved to new offices in Dublin last year and they installed GN toilets- someone just sent an email round the office saying they weren’t sharing the toilets with boggin men and it was decided the loos to the left were for Mná and those to the right for the boys. Everyone was in agreement and so it stood.

Lol, yes! This is the kind of low-key pragmatism that I've also encountered here when it comes to trans issues.

To make a sweeping generalisation about Irish culture , there's a pretty low tolerance for people taking the piss. Anyone with "notions" tends to get short shrift, and there's a cultural norm of collectively ignoring rules that seem pointless or ill-thought out (water charges, anyone?). None of it lends itself to automatic acceptance of trans ideology, I think.

NUIG went for gender neutral loos earlier in the year I think, but other than hipster bars I don't think they are much of an issue.

Thanks both.
dinosaur, that made me smile.

Gender neutral toilets aren't the norm anywhere, even in Dublin, unless they're as a third space: that is, additional gender neutral / unisex toilets (often repurposed disabled toilets, which is another issue) alongside single sex male and female toilets. Many large public spaces, such as universities and some hospitals, have introduced gender neutral toilets in this way while still preserving single sex provision. Most private companies, pubs, etc. have done nothing new, often because their disabled toilet is already unisex.

The idea of relabelling only the female toilets as gender neutral, while leaving the male toilets alone, does not seem to have caught on here. I'm sure some Students' union or similarly woke bar somewhere has tried it but I haven't heard of it (yet).

I think that’s part of the issue- there hasn’t been any real push outside of universities etc to move towards true gender neutral facilities, so people don’t understand what the problem is.

We moved to new offices in Dublin last year and they installed GN toilets- someone just sent an email round the office saying they weren’t sharing the toilets with boggin men and it was decided the loos to the left were for Mná and those to the right for the boys. Everyone was in agreement and so it stood.

Although some of the more 'right on' businesses, particularly in the tech sector, might also have them. They aren't widespread in public places generally though.

Are gender neutral toilets the norm there now, even outside of Dublin?

Definitely not. Unless on college campuses.

I'm feeling somewhat reassured by some of these posts.

I'm coming to Ireland for work for a couple of weeks soon. It's been around 15 years since my last visit so there's been a lot of social change since I was last there.

I did a work trip to Canada last year and had been concerned about the trans lobby there and how my trip would be affected but in actuality it was fine, hopefully Ireland will be the same.
I'll feel obliged to keep my opinions to myself if the subject comes up in the workplace, although I'll be mostly working in Co Cork and Waterford city so it's probably unlikely that it will.

Are gender neutral toilets the norm there now, even outside of Dublin?

I'd love to meet some like minded people gcf women and I'm in the Dublin area too. I totally understand the fears so many have about meeting; luckily work, etc wouldn't be too much of an issue for me if I was outed.

Isn't it shocking? The real life potential consequences are ridiculous though. All for holding an opinion contrary to the prevailing one.

Christ on a bike, it's like being in a spy network or revolutionary cell where you can't know anyone else's identity in case you get lifted and tortured 😂

I don't think I could take the risk of meeting up with others sadly. I've already had a post from here screenshotted and sent around the twitter sphere although it didn't get as much attention as I feared at first.

It was actually tweeted originally by GC feminist, ironically, because it supported a point they were making. That did vex me a bit given what has subsequently happened to others who've had posts go viral.

Yes Juells. They have Mumsnet in their sights too, you might find screenshots of your posts on Twitter if you say the wrong thing.

The young women depress me the most, because beardy self righteous men who turn out to be misogynists are no surprise to me (hello student politics!). But women talking about other women in that dehumanising way -."Bang of terf off this one" they'll say. A bang = a bad smell. Off a strange woman on the internet whose feminism doesn't fit in with your idea of feminism. So she smells. She's not "this person" or "this woman" she's "this one". An "it". Warnings about the spread of"terfism" -imagine the sound of that when you get rid of the t, e and r. The spread of feminism.

They break my heart, they really do, high-fiving each other and competing to see who can be the best, coolest girl ever, and hunting down dissenters.

I'd like to meet yiz too although am massively paranoid about stings and whatnot

Isn't it appalling that in 2018 women are afraid to identify themselves because of the fear that 'the other woman' might in reality be someone who'll make your life hell because he or she is a lovely liberal inclusive person who loves everyone?

There is pretty much no feminist/women's space in Ireland that isn't crawling all over men and their feelz. It's pathetic, considering how we've supposedly shaken off the patriarchal Catholic church.

I'd like to meet yiz too although am massively paranoid about stings and whatnot...honestly TRAs and their handmaidens are some of the worst people I've ever encountered in my life, I'd rather tangle with SPUC...

Hi Superstylin, Just wanted you to know you're not alone! I'm not on Facebook so I haven't witnessed the pile on you're talking about but I am concerned about the erosion of women's rights in Ireland. I feel like it's a sleepwalk by most rather than a conscious decision.

I'd echo MarDhea re her experiences. Most people are 'live and let live' (myself included until recently), but when you give specific examples they can clearly see the issues. I work in Dublin and like the idea of a support network of sane individuals.

Placemarking- will be back later! I was going to post this exact query over the weekend!

Juells- I’m Belfast but have family in Dublin so I’m down frequently enough

Juells, I'm not far from Dublin

Yup, here but just staying under the radar.

I mostly quit social media a while ago and feel that the regular people I meet, work with, etc. are a million miles from the woke circle-jerk that is Twitter and FB.

Amongst my wider circle, there is lots of compassion and some degree of pity for trans people that comes from the passing assumption "sure they've had it hard and they're not doing any harm" rather than from people buying wholesale into identity politics. Most people with lives, kids, mortgages, etc. don't give a shiny shit about identity politics because they're too damned busy to give it any thought. Given how few trans people there are in Ireland (even with a form of self id), most people I know have never met a trans person irl, but would use preferred pronouns etc. out of a sense of courtesy if the occasion arose.

But as soon as you mention actual harm (like Karen White), or mention that trans kids are consenting to drugs that make them sterile at an age when they're not even considered old enough to vote responsibly, or point out that women's changing rooms are open to any chancer who says he identifies as a woman... then it all changes. The compassion for individuals with gender dysphoria (even if they don't know what it's called) remains, but the blind acceptance of trans ideology is replaced by a much more questioning and critical stance.

So my experience is that TWAW has no traction whatsoever in the general populace. If you're not on social media, you hardly encounter that view at all In real life, on mainstream media, etc. I take solace in that...

"The IFN organises regular meetings throughout the year to share ideas and take action against injustices faced due to gender identity in Ireland."

Gender gender gender gender gender gender gender gender gender

I have had what I would term 'light' conversations around the issue with many other Irish women. Most, admittedly, were late 30s and up, but pretty much all expressed some reservations around the current position around these issues. Unfortunately most of them also knew very little about it until we discussed it.

I think that's part of the issue, it's not as prominent or well debated as it is in the UK. The legislation went through without any public debate and the transgender population appears to be a small one, although increasingly vocal, particularly on social media and in universities. Most Irish people know very little about the issues.

I've searched several times for feminist groups in Dublin, and all trumpet how inclusive they are. Usually the very first fucking thing they say in their intro.

I'd be interested in meeting up with like-minded women in Dublin.