Any Irish feeling a bit isolated...

In fairness, I'd be inclined to agree with Raven about that language. I see "doing xyz with this one.." regularly on fb, twitter etc. However, context changes the meaning so when it's being used negatively it dies sounds different.
On a different note, what strikes me most is the irony of people who absolutely despise the Catholic church and speak scathingly about 'sky fairies' seem to be the ones most willing to swallow the trans dogma and who will vilify anyone not toeing the acceptable party line. Critical thinking seems to totally desert them on this one subject.

Ravenwings - "bang of terf off this one" is abusive and dehumanising. There are incidents of harassment and real threats I know of but can't relate on a public forum because of confidentiality. Glad you find it all so fucking hilarious though.

😂
You can take me as a tra in disguise, don't care personally. I just felt that that post about "bang of" etc etc had the entirely wrong end of the stick and was reading negative things into common phrasing.

I also like to correct people

Not that I need to prove myself to you but anyway I'm Irish, born and bred, see some issues with the rise of gender politics (though I disagree with a lot on here) so I like to read here. I also like to correct people going ott and misinterpreting others - as I see it, anyway.

I won't disagree that there is abuse, I disagree that that particular phrase is abuse and I think reading things into common social media phrasing is stupid.

How about you state your interest in this thread, Ravenwings? Every woman on this thread is either Irish-living-in-Ireland, Irish living in UK, or of Irish extraction. What's your reason for plopping in and policing our language?

Ravenwings I'm well acquainted with the language of social media. The disgusting abuse heaped on gender critical feminists by other Irish women is not "in my mind only". I've been around a while and even anti-choicers didn't talk to me like that in the 80s and 90s. But obviously I need you to correct me

That article linked from extra.ie was well worth reading.

There is also this one by the same journalist about gender neutral toilets in schools:
extra.ie/2018/07/08/news/irish-news/we-are-not-indulging-our-children-with-gender-neutral-toilets

Er, no. Thats either a misinterpretation or you trying to hype up a perceived culture of fear or intimidation.

And here we go. The cavalry has tracked us down and will now make sure we talk nice.

I’ve found my people! I have had such a sense of unease about this issue lately -mainly from reading threads here - and it never seems to be mentioned anywhere in Ireland and I’m sure if I spoke to anyone about it they would think I’m crazy! There was a post on a FB group over the summer from a mother with an upset daughter because they had been informed that the school toilets would be gender neutral-most replies were ‘sure it be grand everyone wees’ etc etc - no concept of safe spaces etc. I worry for my children’s future

Bang of terf off this one" they'll say. A bang = a bad smell. Off a strange woman on the internet whose feminism doesn't fit in with your idea of feminism. So she smells. She's not "this person" or "this woman" she's "this one". An "it".

Er, no. Thats either a misinterpretation or you trying to hype up a perceived culture of fear or intimidation. Bang of means that you seem like. They don't think you literally smell like a terf, it's just a phrase. And "this one" is a common phrase now. Look at instagram and all the people posting using captions like "Diceys tonight with this one" "holibops with this one".

It's an annoying woke phrase but the negative connotations you're reading into it are there in your mind only.

SunsetBeetch

"Panti Bliss" - wtaf?!

Ha ha my sister foams at the mouth at the very mention of Panti Bliss - "Fucking Panti Bliss it's so fucking Irish that everyone thinks he's* fucking wonderful because he dresses in fucking drag FFS!" I'm genuinely surprised he hasn't put himself forward in the presidential race, and what's more he'd probably win.

The ad agencies in Ireland love drag, they manage to shove drag 'artists' into ads for everything.

*not misgendering - he's drag, not trans.

Mardhea absolutely wasn'my intention to claim to be an expert on Ireland. Hope it didn't come across as such. But I am an interested observer and I do agree with Patchy's analysis. I also maintain that the fact the left in the U.K. have been infiltrated by those with abusive aims before, means British GC feminists have been able to speak up faster.

What I was referring to (and I'm Irish living in Ireland) was those who actively engage in campaigning and their slavish acceptance of trans ideology the way their grandparents would've been saying the rosary every night.

Oh yes, I totally agree about those muppets individuals. Some people just like being told what to think.

In every society, there always seems to be a group who are afraid to think for themselves and instead prefer to find some orders to follow, whether it's from the church, Scientology, the communist party, the Republican Party, TRAs...

"Panti Bliss" - wtaf?!

LOJ is Little Owen Jones, the King of Woke! He fecking runs the Guardian these days it would appear, and his Twitter blocklist is legendary. Other Mumsnet nickname: Sanctimonious Morph.

Re Irish lobby groups - there are strong links with US and UK transactivists, and funding. TENI and TELI are closely linked for example. Again, I find it funny how prickly Irish woke people got about the supposed "UK Terfs" they had to prevent from speaking this year, as though their causes aren't heavily influenced and funded from overseas. You can't have it both ways!

My only hope is that the challenges come from health officials taking an evidence-based medicine point of view, especially wrt the transing of children and prescribing of medications.

This article was in the Irish Mail on Sunday reproduced on this website a few months ago extra.ie/2018/06/04/lifestyle/health/sex-change-surgery-regrets-ireland
The lead Dr seems to know what the stakes are the dangers of all this but then you have TENI and woke politicians behind the scenes trying to completely remove any kind of therapy before surgery

What's LOJ?

I agree with patchyderm - the trans agenda is already built into policy documents by many relevant state agencies/government departments.

My children are very young, but I dread the time for them to go to secondary school, when all this stuff is well-embedded and accepted/promoted.

National Parents Council Post Primary [http://www.npcpp.ie/information-for-schools/making-schools-inclusive-to-transgender-students]
Dept of Edu Being LGBT in School

I am only slowly starting to go through as many policy docs as I can, see where the trail leads (I know already, sigh).
All helped along by BelongTo and Glen etc - it has been going on for years. I suspect Irish ality legislation is not as strong as the UK - it refers to gender, not sex. (it is a muddle actually

*(2) As between any two persons, the discriminatory grounds (and the descriptions of those grounds for the purposes of this Act) are:

(a) that one is male and the other is female (the “gender ground”)*
[http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/8/enacted/en/print.html]

I don't know what to make of it, and I don't know where to start with figuring out what the 2015 self ID legislation means in practice. (I totally missed that passing, as did most. As was stated above, people are too busy working, rearing children and keeping on the treadmill of life, and so much of this looks harmless on the surface.)

My only hope is that the challenges come from health officials taking an evidence-based medicine point of view, especially wrt the transing of children and prescribing of medications.
Sorry, this is all a bit muddled and I am really just starting to get my head around how to start fighting back. I have a close friend who is as aware as I am, but otherwise, I haven't talked to anyone else about this in real life.

But this site has been an inspiration. It was mentioned on another Irish parenting site a while back as being full of 'Terfs' by a very worthy regular poster (This site does need a Rolling Eyes emoji) but I don't think she realised that she had essentially directed most of the Irish Mammy GC lurkers to a safe haven!

If anyone has any thoughts on the state of the Irish legal situation please do post - It is weird knowing so much about the UK situation but bugger all about our own.

Mardhea most people have never even thought about the subject and the GRA 2015 went through with no public consultation or discussion whatsoever. So the majority haven't had the chance to critique it. What I was referring to (and I'm Irish living in Ireland) was those who actively engage in campaigning and their slavish acceptance of trans ideology the way their grandparents would've been saying the rosary every night. There's a lack of critical thinking which is really resonant for those of us who remember the bad old days.

Considerable damage has been done though it mightn't seem obvious at first- there are some really troubling scenarios unfolding in schools with young people, according to friends who work in education. I know it might seem Irish people won't put up with too much nonsense but we already have self-id. We don't have LOJ but we have "Dr" Panti Bliss spouting his misogyny about "terfs" all over Twitter, I don't know which is more embarrassing.....

Respectfully disagree, lena.

If you were right about Irish people swapping one sacred cow for another, then you'd have people of all ages holding trans dogma sacred. That's not happening. Not in the slightest - this thread is full of examples of how the wider public are not engaging at all in identity politics. Away from social media and perpetual campaigners (who were useful in repealing the 8th but now don't want to relinquish the spotlight and are looking for a new bandwagon to jump on), there is no appetite for it. We have no LOJ in mainstream media, for instance.

There's a very big difference between being a British person of Irish heritage who visits Ireland and an Irish person who actually lives in Ireland here and now. That's perhaps why your judgement seems a bit off.

Interesting to know Patchy ... I have to be careful as one my relatives is very political and men's rights (under the guise of being liberal). As a Brit (all be it one with an Irish passport who has been brought up with a lot of Irish culture around me), obviously I have to be very careful of criticising Irish feminism. Also, I suspect there is a very small trans community in Ireland and apart from in larger cities, cultural norms prevent autogynaphiles from being too brazen. For now. So the public won't realise. They won't realise until too late. Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. I really hope you women find each other. x

Agree with Lena and pachyderm.
Also Brit with (very pronounced) Irish heritage.

Lena you've got it. I've been saying for ages that people have just swapped one cultish dogma for another. And it's true; there is possibly naivety about how authoritarian and illiberal and misogynistic the Left can be, because it wasn't a strong political or cultural force until recently.

I'm a Brit of Irish heritage and with some family in Ireland and I'm a little bit fascinated at the difference in attitudes. My theory is, while Ireland was in the grips of the church's power in the '80s, other stuff was going on in the UK - there was the Islington scandal - where left wing people covered up and ignored sexual abuse www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/jul/06/children.childprotection, there was the PIE thing www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10659169/Harriet-Harman-admits-paedophile-group-joined-her-civil-liberties-group-in-the-1970s.html. In the UK, older women know abuse and abusive behaviour can be carried out by supposedly liberal, left wing people and useful idiots can be manipulated. We've seen it before. I think in Ireland people are so horrified by the church's cover ups and behaviour, they have swapped one sacred cow for another. Obviously just my opinion. Also just in case anyone thinks I am conflating trans with paedophilia, I'm not ... but I do think sawing off teenage girls' breasts and stopping women's rights to challenge men in women's spaces by calling them bigots has some interesting parallels with this time. Be interested to know what Irish women think (cos I can't discuss it with my cousins!)

I am so happy to have found you - alone no more . I suppose I would fall under the GC banner as well. Like so many of you I was involved in the Repeal movement and the previous marriage referendum. I am a supporter of trans rights but not at the expense of women's rights and safeguarding measures. I have a growing sense of disquiet over where this seems to be going and that any attempt to discuss gender critically is met with shouts of 'Terf' of 'transphobe'.

I have a teenager and this is discussed a lot within her peer group. It is almost like a belief system and teens are so vulnerable and impressionable. Luckily she talks to me a lot as well and we can discuss it in a way that I think is getting the message through but it is really tough on kids out there right now. It is a fecking head wreck.