Any Irish feeling a bit isolated...

I missed this the first time it was posted

Reading through this thread has finally made me sign up for an account here, and I think I'll make a Twitter too to follow some of the people mentioned here. I'm also Irish (Dublin based right now) and I've found Irish 'feminism' very frustrating in recent times despite the success of the marriage equality and repeal campaigns. And like many have already said, I've felt very alone with my views. So alone that I've often wondered if I'm wrong and am actually turning into a bigot as a I get older. So I've tried to read as much as I can, both from GC feminists and liberal feminists/TRAs and all it's doing is cementing my GC views.

So I'm glad to know you're all here!

No, dinosaur , but there was absolutely no talk about men other than, eg, "it'll really help your political aspirations if your partner and family understand and pitch in." It was a very diverse group of women from all parties and none and it was nice to be in a room full of women focused on ourselves and our futures.

Count me in too. I'm a lurker, having my eyes and mind opened up from reading so much here. I'm in Dublin working for a very big company that does not understand individuals who don't want to drink their Kool Aid!! Criticism by me online would get me fired. I'll will try to be more informed of what's happening. Thanks to everyone for debunking the whole mad ideology

Mother Did you get any subtle GC vibes from many people?

Right, so not a gc group, but I went to the Women for Election workshop today. It was good. Sixty women in a room looking to make a positive difference in the world. It was a valuable day. (and the only male body was a speaker)

Josepha Madigan was a bit scathing of sex gender quotas, while acknowledging she wouldn't have been elected without them, and Mary O'Rourke was a relic of stereotypes past, but Cathleen Carney Boud was gave great insight into the reality of bring a local counsellor (with clear Dail ambitions) and Orlaith Carmody gave some good media and comms training. I'm tentative that if some of the rock of sense women I met today can engage, we might have hope.

yes, good work by her. Thanks OP. One of the leading lights on woke twitter is a gender studies professor, and she believes that running a twitter account called 'manel watch', is activism. She makes her living by promoting gender nonsense. But none of them can answer the question that if gender is a social construct, A. why aren't they working to abolish gender instead of reinforcing it. B. As race is a gender construct, why can't people transition to another race, like genderists?

Great to see you RaggyAgirl. I am so pleased the OP started this thread. We are out there, even if we are a bit scattered and isolated at the moment. The woke types might be in for a shock when eventually our numbers grow. I think they think getting people thrown off twitter is the same as being constructively active. They don't realise people will just talk elsewhere, in secret if that is what it takes.

hey Justanotherspartacus, someone alerted me that I was mentioned on here, so joined mumsnet to say thanks. The main thing to bear in mind with twitter is that the handful of 'people' (their favourite word!) trying to dominate and control the Irish feminist narrative on there are only performing feminism, they are in it for their own gain, as opposed to actually trying to lift ALL women up.
An example: on the day it was announced that Ireland has the highest child care costs in the EU, these clowns were arguing over pussy hats ('not inclusive'), or yellow flowers for the Trump protest, that was already being planned, when his visit hadn't even been announced.
The handmaid who started it all by announcing she would be knitting pussy hats, was put to the stake and told how wrong she was, and so she repented and was set free. And said she wouldn't knit the hats. So they settled on yellow flowers. This is what they call feminism. Yes, really.
But, we are many, they are few, and we have reason, intelligence, empathy and logic, where the fakes only have abuse, derision, and bullying. I am based in Dublin if anyone wants to meet up.
And beware of the fakes who will be on here, to try to disrupt and destroy the solidarity that real feminists and women naturally have for each other. No pasaran!

Dinosaurkisses, yes, you were doing fine in that Twitter thread and he clearly wasn't arguing in good faith at all. It came across to me that he was just hectoring on and on about glinner (ok so it was his thread initially but...) and putting words in his and your mouths about what he had decided you each believed...

Also the fact that you slightly mixed up one of the names cited (Jess) and despite having demanded "names and numbers" he clearly never checked who these people were and what the problem might be with them! That's the proof he never intended engaging with the substance of the argument.

I don't know what the answer is here, the argument that we keep posting for visibility and for the lurkers is good for Mumsnet, a bit trickier on Twitter as it can end up leaving anyone drained and battered. But it probably still holds true that someone like Aidan has followers who may be reading along even if he himself will never admit to having been wrong.

I have three daughters. The older two are on the same page as me but I can't speak about this to the younger one at all. She came out as gay this year and sees trans as the most marginalised of her community and totally buys the TWAW mantra. She will be going to college next year and I really worry about her being influenced by this crap.

Yes Snip Snip, no sooner was the abortion referendum over than women were being put back in their place.

I’ve been quietly reading this here in Dublin.

Thank you for putting this out there.

I’d read Glinner’s tweets and the reactions to him, and wondered ‘did I miss a memo? Am I not getting something?’ I am watching from the sidelines as I feel I invested so much in #repealthe8th and admired the vocal leaders and champions of that cause, that I feel doubtful and disillusioned that ‘we’ have now moved on to ‘the next item on the agenda.’

Blog by gender critical Irish woman stormforcefeminist.wordpress.com/

This twitter thread is epic twitter.com/raggagirly/status/1042736274661105664 Nailed it I think(this is just part of it):

"Meanwhile back at the ranch, real ordinary feminists fight on alone, and are attacked and bullied and sneered and derided because we won't jump on the latest hurtling bandwagon for kudos and props. If a feminist is not campaigning on issues, then they are not feminist. They have weaponised feminism for their own ends. To get on boards, to get on all women shortlists, to get the same obscene salaries as the men get, and to feather their own nests. They are not feminists, they are fakes, and charlatans.

... My experience of UK women is that they helped Irish feminists like to raise money for food, travel, accomadation etc for Irish women going over to the U for abortions. When it wasn't safe, or trendy, or popular. So to see the fakers now jump on this to prove how fake woke they are is hilarious."

You are welcome dinosaur. I have also felt very isolated in Ireland, and most people around me think I am a bigot etc. Very frustrating. It is obvious on this thread that we are out there.

I had been thinking of starting a thread about Ireland and the trans movement, specifically legislation issues and the like, as people could take actions like writing to their TD's on specific issues. I have done this myself (no success, but I intend to follow up).

ThatDamnWoman, I think you have a point there. I don't think there has been a very strong, ideologically developed, feminist movement here since the 70's and early 80's. This is my impression, and I was active myself a bit in this area in the 90's and early 00's and really it was quite small, and I think somewhat academic, and third sector (sane academic, not the queer theory nonsense of now).

I think as well a lot of people who have been around for years have had more ups and downs, so more humility, so I wonder if that would make them less cocky? There have been some relatively easy successes for younger feminists recently (not easy, but definitely more going with the flow than against, as in previous generations). Having said that, some of the vocal woke people now are not young and should know better.

I don't really know enough about specific individuals now to know where they are getting their nonsense. I saw a few threads today on twitter which i thought nailed it, including the Camille Loftus one mentioned above. I will see if I can find another one I am thinking of.

After a quick count, there’s seems to be at least 35 of us (36 including thatdamnwoman’s chum, waves!)

That’s roughly 30 more than I knew of a few days ago!

That's shocking, the thought that a company can adopt a policy without looking at the impact on other employees.

My pal's been in and read through this thread and is feeling heartened. It was her first time posting anything GC and while she was braced for a lack of likes and maybe one or two people disagreeing she hadn't anticipated the Irish pile-on.

I looked at the Amnesty Ireland's pregnant people tweets and noticed one that said:

It's really frustrating to have people who don't understand Irish feminism telling us that cis women are being erased.

Is there something distinct about Irish feminism? Has there been a radical tradition there in the past or did the mainland UK feminism of the 60s and 70s and 80s pass the ROI by? Maybe they went straight from being in thrall to the Catholic church to 90s feminism lite.

Thanks very much @JustAnotherSpartacus, I really appreciate that

Dinosaurkisses I thought you were doing really well in that exchange with Aidan. I think at this stage, even raising some questions in people's minds is good (not his, I mean other potential readers). They just end up looking like they are talking nonsense and getting worked up, if we keep our cool and stick to the arguments it might give some people pause for thought. We don't have to be perfect, or know everything at this stage to have an impact.

Another Irish GC feminist here. Not "out" in any way and feel like others above in that no one is having these conversations in real life. Dublin based too so would love to meet up if that happens.

I work in a large organisation and happened to come across our Trans policy recently, while looking for something else. It was drafted and adopted and published all with no notice at all and actually states that as a line manager, I can't ask anything to anyone struggling with gender issues, they can do as they like, dress as they like, request/ demand any role they like, use any facilities they like, etc. No mention of any impact on their colleagues at all!

What particularly distressed my friend is that the most cliched and aggressive response has already had 130 likes. My friend has about 40 friends so she's feeling totally overwhelmed. During our conversation she actually said to me: 'Maybe they're right. How can so many people be wrong?'

This above upsets me so much.

Also interested in the connection made between anti British sentiments. All of my second gen friends have struggled with this. Not feeling at home anywhere. Being shouted at in Ireland when they hear my Brit accent. Interesting this same prejudice is having an effect in this debate.

Hmm.

Anyone thinking about writing to their TD?

I’m back up North but still registered to vote in north Dublin. Our TD was v quick to reply to my email about the new maternity hospital at St Vincent’s when that was in the media.

Underlying a lot of it is old sectarian and anti-British stuff, because before they discovered transactivism and a feminism that centres men, most of the nastiest lot were heavily involved in pretty extreme Irish politics. They need someone to hate and this has given them new life.

I noticed this a bit during the repeal campaign, where the people I heard coming out with "pregnant people" were most often from the shouty end of SF or SWP (or whatever they're called these days). It was only a few individuals so I thought it was just a coincidence at the time, but now I wonder...

Shit, your poor friend, thatdamnwoman. That kind of pile-on is not going to win any hearts and minds, is it? It seems they don't want to, they just want to shame and silence. I hope your friend notices the difference between their way of engaging and that of the GC women here and elsewhere.

I think at the moment she's in hiding but I'll send her here to link up with you if she wants to.