MNHQ: I'd like to start a thread about the reality of phalloplasty without it being deleted

I don't understand why your last thread was deleted.

This needs to be seen.

If people are undergoing surgery they need to know the truth about it.

How is it possible that women and men in their 30s find it difficult to get a vasectomy or their tubes clipped as they might change their minds but people that young can undergo painful procedures with long recovery periods permanent scarring and never ever be able to fully enjoy a normal sexual relationship .

And all the people pushing this pathway for people have not even undergone it themselves.

It's criminal

The surgeon Dr. Crane, who is now sued by 8 of his phalloplasty patients (see upthread comment and link by another poster) features in Louis Theroux documentary about transkids, btw. He sure made phalloplasty make look like you could get a good looking package easily (they even talked about function with a patient). If this was something I wanted but was scared of, after seeing that, I might have gone for it. I sure wonder, whether Crane was upfront with patients regarding success rates and risks....

Urbanbeetler
We are all having to challenge our thinking, our socialisation and our belief in human nature when confronting this toxic ideology. When politicians stand by and watch children being groomed and mutilated in plain sight, it's not surprising that the rest of us struggle to articulate what is happening. I know that week by week, I am becoming more and more militant!

I kind if go in the opposite direction urban but i think your post us really interesting and i will think more about it - avoiding medicalisation does sound like a goal. For me that means avoiding any pressure on having surgery as some kind of passport, and on mN and elsewhere this IS happening as we talk about eg Karen White, intact males in female prisons and '80% of trans males keep their penis'. Well, that's a good thing - the ultimate goal imo should be 100%. I would love to live in a society whete there is 0% genital mutilation of any type and 0% self harm. Maybe we should refer to this surgery as medicalised or assisted self harm.

To me that means being even stronger in protecting single sex spaces. I definitely don't want 'get your dick chopped off' or 'have your arm turned into a cock-like item' as some kind of invitation to 'the club'. I would like being in your sexed body not to be seen as a club into which you 'pass' or not. To me that means being absolutely clear that a wish to transition being a mebtal health issue for which surgery is the wrong and unethical treatment. But maybe self id is in fact the path out of the situation we are in where an official government consultation defines 'sex' as something other people define for you at birth instead of something that you are from very early in your gestation. Maybe we do have to step forward through self id to escape this insanity rather than try to hold a line? I hope not but you could ve right.

Oh FFS

Stupid bloody technology. I post a reply and it reposts the next from my last post.wtaf safari.
now i’ll Have to remember what I wrote again.

Stupid bloody technology. I post a reply and it reposts the next from my last post.wtaf safari.
now i’ll Have to remember what I wrote again.

Here, this can’t be linked back to a real person and has bits censored. I think it covers the reality of a transitioned body.
I’ve had some feedback that it doesn’t happen to children under 18 because of the tattooing comment. All I can say is that the head of Britain’s largest charity for trans kids had their child fully physically transitioned on their 16th birthday, and they are not alone. Don’t make out that it doesn’t happen because seeing the reality makes you feel uncomfortable.

whereas a healthy adult woman has to jump hoops to have an elected hysterectomy? But a child can be started on the path to a sex change (when all most probably need is a metal heath expert intervention and a talk about the nonsense of gender stereotypes)?

Free text - Beauty and misogyny - Harmful cultural practices in the West by Sheila Jeffreys.

We have to deal with where we are now and I am arguing that we have gone down a road too far already to reverse. Minimising long term impact feels like the best thing now.

OK look sorry - I take back 'hard of thinking' you clearly are thinking. Have a

But I don't agree that we can't reverse it. And I don't agree that we should minimise damage. I am very angry about this and about the prison thing and we must keep fighting it. Not least because WE ARE WINNING. So I don't want anyone to give up, or to compromise, or to say 'maybe this bit, you can have that' Because they won't stop until we have nothing left.

And, I say again, WE ARE WINNING.

Yes Sandy - plus certain influential trans-activists are campaigning for kids to be allowed to do what they want with their own bodies - and to be able to remove any control of the parents in any of these decisions.

Just checked her Twitter and saw the 'Stonewall Hates Lesbians - Get Over It' T-shirt

photos of post op arms are all over twitter just now. Grim - beyond grim but sobering. Still, maybe a link to a photo? They are very graphic.

I do get what you are saying. I don’t know what the long term affects of breast binding actually is because there are so many conflicting reports. Same as with medical transitioning - there is so little research really telling us if it solves the issue for those who transition or if it creates huge new issues. There are so few reliable resources. We have to deal with where we are now and I am arguing that we have gone down a road too far already to reverse. Minimising long term impact feels like the best thing now.

But I accept I may be wrong. This goes round and round in my head - I can’t accept that we shouldn’t listen at all to the people who have and are going through it - but I also see the damage and the trauma and it horrifies me. And I hate how many battles we fought for women are now becoming retrospective defeats.

I am bowing out of this debate now. The splinters on my bum from sitting on the fence are too much to take.

Maybe I am hard of thinking.

Naomi Wolf - The Beauty Myth was published in the 1990s against impossible beauty ideals. I would come up with more examples as I have them but I need to go out. The voices against idealised femininity and surgery to achieve it were certainly there.

Here, this can’t be linked back to a real person and has bits censored. I think it covers the reality of a transitioned body.
I’ve had some feedback that it doesn’t happen to children under 18 because of the tattooing comment. All I can say is that the head of Britain’s largest charity for trans kids had their child fully physically transitioned on their 16th birthday, and they are not alone. Don’t make out that it doesn’t happen because seeing the reality makes you feel uncomfortable.

Sandy draws badly's twitter feed led me to the Reddit discussion on phalloplasty and a man (of the born with meat and two veg variety) saying "presumably if the nerve grafts take, the sensation you get will be a bit like having your forearm stroked - ie not at all like penetrative sex feels." It also got me thinking about the claim that you'd still be able to orgasm via indirect stimulation of the now-buried clitoris. I can't help but think that would feel a bit like trying to masturbate through jeans and a thick winter overcoat (still, ideal for the gulag I guess).

I totally disagree wth you too, urbanbeetler.

Breast binding is an awful practice that can cause permanent damage.

Fox & Owl's awful book needs to be put in the bin, and charities need to stop affirming this shit - and yelling at people who tentatively suggest that unquestioning affirmation may not be such a good idea....

That's not calling names though is it?

I do think it's naive at best to think that you can disuade people from a course of action by making it easier. When does that ever happen? It requires you to tie your thinking up in knots frankly. And I don't know why you would do that.

And breast binders are not a least worst option - they are horrible.

Hard of thinking?

I guess it doesn’t matter but it makes it easier to think fuck it why bother when you can’t put a considered point of view across without being called ‘hard of thinking’.

And where was this idealism when our daughters and sisters chase after breast augmentation because their breasts aren’t the right shape, or too small?

Eh? Not sure you're going to find much support for cosmetic surgery among radical feminists so the answer to your question is that this idealism was right here, where it has always been.

I think most feminists are also more than happy to go to bat against unecessary plastic surgery to fit some pornified ideal, urban. I certainly am.