MNHQ: I'd like to start a thread about the reality of phalloplasty without it being deleted

A well-understood aspect of cultic control is that people are asked to do demeaning or painful or awful things. Or they are simply bullied and humiliated. You’d think that this would make them wake up and leave the cult or situation but in fact if you can make someone really suffer for a set of beliefs, or do something terrible for them, the person will generally double down on those beliefs.

This is partly sunk cost fallacy: if you’ve suffered terribly and/or done something awful for an ideology, you don’t want to admit you were duped or wrong and you have to find a way of making meaning from the suffering (this transman I mentioned, after 31 surgeries, is saying he believes everything happens for a reason and it’ll all be ok one day, and continues to give advice to other people about transition, including phalloplasty despite saying he regrets his).

But even being asked to choose something so painful and risky as SRS can be seen as exciting before it happens, it’s like an initiation, a test of how brave and committed you are to the ideology. It’s a challenge. That’s the only explanation I can give as to why people are posting stuff to this trans man saying things like, I’ve read your page and I’m going ahead with phalloplasty, you inspire me to see that even if it’s difficult I’ll get through it...

Showing people gruesome pictures and telling them about possible complications before SRS might in fact have the effect of spurring them on to do it, to ‘prove’ how brave and committed they are.

Ban all cosmetic and medically unnecessary surgery, I say.

Bronners78

At what age, though?

11?

Very early in my transition I was shown various photos relating to vaginoplasty. Some which are far worse and more graphic than those you can find on a google.

Be under no doubts, we are presented with every gory detail up front to ensure an informed decision.

There’s one transman online who’s had 31 surgeries in 3 years to try to correct a phalloplasty. He has an ileostomy which will probably never be removed.

You know what people say about the overrepresentation of certain personality types amongst surgeons? Does make you wonder.

(NASALT, obvs.)

add in scars for the actual phalloplasty, hysterectomy and the breast removal

If you google search for topless transmen, it would appear that about 90% have tattoos on their chest (all in the same place) to cover over the scars

How fucked up is it that a non-essential surgical procedure then requires permanent skin colouring in order to try to hide it

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned on the thread, but I’ve just started watching the Louis Theroux trans kids thing, and the surgeon who’s featured on it is the infamous Curtis crane.

I went and had a good look on the internet at all the pics and videos, even as an ex nurse I was quite horrified by the procedure. I can't imagine you would get much sensation out of that even if it worked. It must be just cosmetic. There are plenty of trans people who just never bother because it's just too much including one very butch porn star.
Such as Buck Angel, don't google unless you are quite robust.

This whole thing is so profoundly disturbing.

Fistulas aren't something to just brush off either, and they seem to be extremely common to the point where additional surgeries to address them are almost assumed.

I saw it only on a small device. I won‘t deny for a minute that it is shocking. I just believe that necrotic genitalia, messed up and dysfunctional or leaking uretha and bowel Systems Seem even more scary (the arm is a certainty while necrosis&co are not, though. Acknowledged). Anyway, all of this is not something they tell kids in their grand ‚you can be whatever you want‘ show.

Sorry - bandied around by people who are pro medical transition.

It is so hard. I work on post surgical and transplant wards. I find it infuriating the way surgery and transplants are bandied around by some people as if they are just things that should happen, that anyone should consider if they are available - that SHOULD be available. The 'laryngeal shave' and vocal cord shortening procedures that people talk about have potential complications involving never being able to have a voice again, never being able to swallow orally again. I work with people who have procedures like this because they will choke to death from cancer if they don't (and the plastic surgeons are a vital part of that team). Surgery can be lifesaving, even life enhancing but it certainly shouldn't be left to surgeons behind closed doors to talk about.

Did you see Sadie's drawing? That's a pretty accurate representation, though seeing it on an actual arm is much, much more upsetting.

Curious Crane didn‘t show the donor side, then. Though I guess, even without seeing the donor site, I can say what bothers me most are the potential complications that the 8 people who are suing Crane now experienced.

Considering this It is utterly enraging how 5-10 year old kids are bamboozled into believing, they can just ‚get‘ the ‚fitting body‘ when they are old enough and want to. It is nothing short of cruel.

It's the "donor site" that bothers me more than the "penis", which looks a bit like a sausage roll gone wrong.

Ok, i guess, the pics are really crucial, then. For what Dr. Crane shows in the Theroux documentary really looks like what you‘d expect in a male locker room. It is quite problematic, when Crane‘s best of pics are widely circulated on national tv, while other real life outcomes are censored. 🤬

On the left it says I'm so glad my parents supported me to be my authentic self.

On the right it says in a few months I'll even be old enough to get tattoos to help cover the scarring.

I want people to know that the picture is not sensational, nor dramatic. It's accurate.

This is one of those things where a description of the surgery and aftermath doesn't have the same impact as a photo. Sandy's drawing is a decent compromise, but a lot of people will tell themselves that it isn't as bad as she's making it look. It is.

I’m on IPad AND in denial about my reading glasses prescription needs.
Please could someone transcribe Sandy’s text for me.

SandyDrawsBadly - Sandy, I think that cartoon is the most impactful you've ever drawn. It made me cry. Thank you for drawing it.

As far as I know, statistically speaking, social transition is the most likely marker for physical transition.

I understand the premise of minimising things like names and presentation, normalising it. That's the gender critical position.

The crux is not to agree that it means you are presenting as the opposite anything. You're just being you.

And that Sandy Draws Badly picture, although a fairly accurate representation, does not show the real horror. I agree this needs to be shared widely.

It's the logical conclusion to those stupid books, the gingerbread person spectrum, and picking a fairy or a GI Joe as your internal representation. Ffs.

I remember having a "heated discussion" with my DD about her FtM friend in which I said I thought it was sad that her friend would never feel sexual pleasure if her friend went on to have a surgical transition. The subject had obviously never been part of their conversation, and I think this is because a) they're too young to even have the concept of what they are giving up and b) the female orgasm is irrelevant to the people pushing this agenda. It's unimportant because women are just a collection of holes for penetration.

As an aside, another DC had to have surgery on her lip, when I asked the surgeon what impact this would have on her ability to feel sensation with her lip, he said that he'd never been asked that before, and he'd never considered it before. In DCs case, the surgery was unavoidable, and it was a moot point, but I think it says a lot about the focus on the mechanical rather than the spiritual/emotional impact of surgery.

I am absolutely sick of saying that just because we have the ability to do something, it doesn't follow that we should do it.