Making room to say, "I was wrong"

I agree with the OP only in relation to the 'ordinary people', the general population, the people 'on the Clapham omnibus'. We are so angry because we recognise the threat and won't back down. Why would we expect others to back down in the face of what they feel threatens them? Agression does not win hearts.

As far as politicians are concerned, however, I don't agree. A politician's apology is rarely worth diddly-squat, because it is rarely genuine. Politicians are generally either rigid followers of doctrine, or self-serving power-seekers. If, along the way, they help other people, it's rarely out of the goodness of their hearts or a true belief in helping their fellows, but as a route to achieve their objective: doctrine or power. Their apologies generally come only when not to apologise would cost them more than to apologise.

Power responds to power. Strength responds to strength. But what is perceived as power and strength in men, is often perceived as shrill hysteria in women (gender!). Hence the success of the TRAs.

.... and of course, the narcissism of many TRAs and politicians just can't be compromised with in any 'normal' way

I think this is interesting and I think the inability and/or unwillingness to say they are wrong and to apologise is pretty much down to male socialisation. It's something I very much wanted to address when bringing up my sons.

I agree with Ova that the exploitation of people's desire to be "nice" has been very successful, especially when targeted at women and lefty men. But there's a lot of underlying misogyny revealed when men are challenged by women to think a bit more

try to manage

Exactly. They're not children, they're adults who don't care about women and don't believe they'll ever be shown to have been wrong.

We laydeez must bend over backwards to be nice to them though

I can easily forgive individuals who have not followed the narrative closely or have bought into the propaganda that this is like just like gay rights.

Not so much politicians, charities and other orgs that are supposed to put safeguarding as a first priority. They have made a choice to accept women and children being collateral damage as a price worth paying for being woke.

One reason we have lost the argument so far is our tendency to be reasonable and compromise and try to manage the emotions of our opponents.

It is clear as daylight that this approach simply doesn't work against people who will lie, gaslight, bully and threaten in order to win the argument.

I'm not saying we should adopt their tactics, but I don't think it makes sense to further soften ours.

They will, no doubt, be constantly raked over the coals by the TRA lobby for showing weakness....

Yes they have been. Unfortunately a direct apology for one thing can be taken as a general admission of guilt. Look at the TRAs - they never apologise, even when caught up in something fairly serious.

Reality is this

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364329-Motion-against-Liverpool-ReSisters-by-Liverpool-City-Council

not making room for an imaginary admission that they got it wrong.

They think there will be no consequences. They don't care about women. They believe women should STFU and if they don't, nobody will listen anyway.

WTAF is going on in this thread? You're discussing it as if it's a foregone conclusion that logic and common sense will win, and we should prepare for that time now.

I totally agree OP. It's very important to give people the leeway to back away from the ideology now. Many of us had to do the same at some point.

The transactivist narrative has changed completely in recent years. From 'let's support people with a diagnosis of dysphoria' to ' trans women are actual, literal women with penises, you're a bigot for disagreeing and we don't care if this disadvantages women and children'.

Many people and respectable organisations think that they are supporting the former. When in fact they are pushing the latter.

There is nothing to be gained by pursuing anyone who realised too late that the narrative has moved on.

Ugh, pressed return too soon.

We are tempted to gloat when we "win" or score a "point" in a debate.

We need to talk about our own experiences of changing our minds, and we need to allow others to save face.

And keep everything polite, to enable all that.

Often difficult!

No, I'm really glad you raised this.

So often, people are shamed for changing their minds. Its considered weak. Defeated.

And so often we are tempted to gloat when we "win" or score a P.O.

What’s your suggested method for getting them to change, OP?
So far, logical and reasoned argument has failed. Ditto being polite, offering a third space, etc.
The only thing that really focuses MPs minds is the risk of losing votes. Hence the need to make clear that we will not forget this at the ballot box.
The only problem is finding any party that WILL take women’s safety seriously.

I think it's quite helpful to rub someone's nose in reality, and force them to think things through. They don't give a shit about women, they're basking in the glow of being so enlightened and caring, and they're doing it because they think it reflects well on them. Fuck them. Let them know it will all rebound on them when the shit hits the fan.

I understand what you are saying and don't disagree. After all, you give children the space to say, "I'm sorry.

Except that...

Don't we want our politicians to have that space to say they misjudged the situation, or listened to incorrect guidance?

I think the issue/concern is that many of them probably know this already and are willfully listening to abusive men/ignoring genuine concerns of women.

Their apologies won't be sincere. They aren't even listening to us.